To listen to this podcast episode visit Ep 59: Swimming in the Deep End with Chad Sanschagrin.

Kevin Oakley 0:12
Welcome to Market Proof Marketing, the weekly podcast for the marketing minds at DoYouConvert.com, where we talk about the current state of all things digital and how they impact Home Builders and developers around the globe. We’re not here to sell you, we’re here to help you and to try and elevate the conversation. I’m Kevin Oakley, and with me today, as always, is the Dr. Andrew Peek.

Andrew Peek 0:30
We’re here at number 59. And we also have Jackie with the system.

Jackie Askews 0:33
Hi, guys, how are you?

Andrew Peek 0:35
I’m in the house today. In the What do we call it? We had a bunch of different names for this little room. I meant, but I have a window now. It’s amazing. laboratory, right? Light, the ad lab, we could search operating room, I don’t know, we could do anything fun because I’m a doctor. I’m not a real doctor, by the way I could although I should get like a certificate online than I could. Then I’m being truthful, in my advertising, I guess.

Kevin Oakley 1:02
so my question is for the first ever recording in the ad lab, did you make the rest of your family leave the house entirely.

Andrew Peek 1:10
So I’ve never lived in a two story home. And this is it’s on a 40 foot lot. So obviously they had to go up to get any square foot. It’s amazing. Like having so my office is downstairs. The living room is kind of like probably 20 feet 30 feet forward in front of me and everyone else is upstairs. At least they were when I started. I did lock the office door though, just in case. They start coming down. Who knows? All right.

Kevin Oakley 1:37
Fill us in – How did? How did it all go? You weren’t with us last week when we recorded because you were literally moving in. But

Andrew Peek 1:44
we were closing yet closing was fine. And I’ll give like the more builder things that were interesting versus like, yeah, we moved and it was hot and sweaty, and all that stuff. But the it was interesting. So he was financing through the builder. More like there. However it’s set up. It’s not the same name. But they had they survey in the closing process. I thought that was before they like released the funding or whatever the work I signed, who knows what I signed out on out, but it’s like, all right, you have to do this before the next steps. With the title company we’re like really have to although we of course wanted to get feedback, but I could imagine that could be perceived as like, Oh, this makes me feel weird. Or like, oh, you’re not really seeing funding until I do these ratings on you. Like, when are you gonna do something weird if I give you bad answers? The person doing the closing, of course was like, it doesn’t matter what you put like, this is just they want it done so that they do it this way. So that was that was interesting. Yeah,

Kevin Oakley 2:41
they just want to know if you’re if you’re upset and there, you weren’t on the radar before they want to make sure. I’m assuming I know things here that they can react quickly based on that initial feedback. And then also compare it to the 15 or 30 days or 90 days after you move in and figure out if you got happier as a time faded, and those memories of rough construction process faded or more upset as you’ve uncovered more issues. So but

Jackie Askews 3:08
now Andrew, like licking the tip of the pen, like okay,

Andrew Peek 3:17
Lindsay, my wife, she can get anywhere with anybody like so she would have the division presence number, they talked all this stuff for this whole thing that happens in any circumstance with whatever she’s doing. I don’t know how she does it. That’s just how she she

Jackie Askews 3:30
sideways. Lindsay on my team, that I want her on my side.

Andrew Peek 3:34
Yeah, you do. It’s sorry. It’s great. It’s great. That’s awesome. But I decided that that building at home is kind of like having a second child or third child that I might be this might not be good to say. So you have you’re getting excited. We’re having some Abraham’s baby. They’re like, Oh, cool babies here. And then you’re that excitement kind of goes, is this bad. I’m saying this. How about like, Oh, well then like, that anticipation, the excitement, oh, this is just normal now.

Jackie Askews 4:06
and how much you end up having to get like, once you’re there, you start noticing how much more you need to buy. It’s like waking up every two hours. It’s there’s just a probably a lot of adjustment

Andrew Peek 4:17
So you kind of swing down and then you have like, I think this is with kids like a moments of like, Oh, this is amazing. Like, it’s just sneaky. Like I was in the kitchen the other day. I’m like, this is awesome. Like, I’ve never had a kitchen this big before. Like, I was always gonna flip your old kitchen and it’s like this little galley and you’re like turning around and circle and you could touch the fridge, the stove, the counters without moving your feet. And like this is awesome. But it’s it’s interesting. The for me, I’m like there’s a lot of emotions afterwards. They’re kind of going through, but I guess that’s buying like a buying cycle.

Kevin Oakley 4:47
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. extremely, extremely common. And you know, you’re right, there’s some things that you feel like will be a bigger deal. Like cabinets are still going to open the way cabinets open. So like, functionally, the cabinet is still doing the same thing. And then you do have those moments where ball is calm for a moment, and the lights hitting everything right? You’re like, Oh, this is just great. until it gets scratched up by your dog or your kids or whatever. And you know,

Andrew Peek 5:12
it’s funny you do that, like we moving and moving and I had like my one thing on the wall like, Oh, well, good thing have like 40 gallons of paint in the garage for some reason. Yeah, reset the lens. He’s like, what happened? Oh, my goodness. I’m like, it’s fun to happen.

Kevin Oakley 5:26
And I’m sure every time Yeah, that’s

Andrew Peek 5:30
the first thing she moved long right into the Yeah, she’s like, no, yeah. So now we’re like, oh, there’s so many things on the wall. No big deal.

Kevin Oakley 5:38
But everything’s unpacked, you’re settled, Feeling good, no?

Andrew Peek 5:45
we’re definitely living well before, if you remember like the closing was delayed. So we had to move out of the condo were insane. We went to Lindsay’s parents house, and then went to my parents house. So we were already like, transact like we had like the stuff we needed the minimum. So we move that stuff over and everything else is a bonus as far as like, Oh, look, we got this back. We got this back. This is amazing. So I think our expectation of like, we don’t have our stuff was already like we didn’t have it anyways. So like that. Yeah, we were totally okay with but like, I’m looking at my office, I saw that the fan up for more fans to install. I’m like, well, that’s in pieces. I need to know, I’ll do that this weekend. I think that’s a rush. Yeah, we’re in that phase of moving on where it’s like, okay, we’re functioning people over it doesn’t look crazy. But we’re

Jackie Askews 6:30
still plenty of time. That doesn’t feel like Yeah, that’ll help us feel better.

Kevin Oakley 6:35
For sure. The angel on his shoulder, I’m the devil. We’re, we’re very similar approach to the lion household. They moved in and like 48 hours later, everything’s out of a box. And they’re there. So right now we’re kind of in that same mode of like, Nope, just get it done. As much as possible.

All right. Well, let’s hop over to story time. And Andrew just continue on here latest latest in keep talking. So

Andrew Peek 7:01
I think as marketers we do notice other outside of other industries, like how they market so this is one they this supplement company, they’re called Red con one. All their supplements. I do like military theme name, all this stuff that other actually based out of Florida anyways, they do a boatload of promotions, like all the time, enough that you you just know, like, I’m not gonna buy that because there’s gonna be a promotion, like you just kind of, because they do it so much. They are just going, there’s no urgency. You’re like, Oh, I need something. But you’re like, I know, there’s some be a promo, you could look at like old posts on their Instagram or their Facebook and be like, they run promos a lot. That’s interesting, huh. And they push it through. So another thing outside of like the, we’ll get back to the promotion piece, which is what I wanted to focus on, they push through a lot of influencers, which I think is pretty cool. As far as like a cool thing they do. So they have a promotion, every influencer that they work with, with, whether they’re what they call athletes, or just sponsored whatever, will start pushing their own version of the promotion. So you might see it in 30 different places. But it’s 30 different ways. And of course, they’re compensated for pushing out. But my point on this was, I thought it was interesting that you could just look at their organic page on Instagram and Facebook, any other history of what promotions they run. And you could not that everyone’s doing this when they need something, but you’re like, oh, every three days, they’re doing something. I’m just gonna wait three days, and I could save X amount of money. So what are your guys’s thoughts on that, if you have a promotion, not pushing it in, like organically on your Facebook page or Instagram page to try to prevent that, like, Oh, they do like closing credits, or they do like, you know, a free pool, if you buy in this month, or whatever the dollar amount may be if you do tend to run promotions,

Jackie Askews 8:54
this is coming. Perfect timing, I think coming off of Amazon Prime Day different things that generate excitement for a deal. And I know me personally, I’m on a lot of sites, and I put a lot of things in carts. And it’s funny because most of the time now there are promo codes on sites listed right there, whether it’s a July or summer. And as soon as it ends. I purposely won’t purchase, I’ll leave those things in my heart. And I’ll wait until another promo kicks in. Because a lot of the companies I see they end up like you said they’re very frequent. And they’re very public with the way they push it. So you know, they’re going to happen often. I don’t know if I’m the only one like that

Andrew Peek 9:40
ends up hanging out. Maybe Jackie, that was you talking to me. Um, I was back at that. There’s one furniture company where it’s just known like, you don’t buy from them unless you use like a promotion. I forgot. Yes. But it’s so crazy. Like, you’re like they’re branded that way. But it’s higher end stuff. It’s not it’s like lower quality furniture, but you’re like, Oh, interesting, then sure enough, you see it. And it’s it’s pretty obvious like don’t buy unless you are buying through promotion,

Kevin Oakley 10:05
I don’t want to split hairs on what like the definition of promotion is. However, in the example of like a coupon or a discount, I think you never want to put that out organically or front and center. because no one’s buying because of that, before I even if they might be drawn to it at the end of the day, the price is the price. So whatever the final discounted price is, is the price they’re paying. And that’s what they’re going to compare against other alternatives. Whereas if someone’s already expressed interest and it’s a closing tool, that’s that that’s a different story. And does prevent that kind of feeling of I’ll just wait because there’s always a promotion and I think I’ve told the story already about at Hartland, prior to the acquisition of VR, there’s like a two and a half year period where there’s a new promotion every month or every other month. And we had to undo that all the work we had to do to get the sales team to have confidence in our pricing again, and it was just a lot of unintended bad consequences from running continual promotions. However, going back to splitting hairs on what we’re calling a promotion, introducing a new floor plan in the community is a promotion, having a new option available or adjusting option pricing or creating a new package of options. But I call shuffling the deck or just repackaging how the community is presented, you still want to approach those, like a promotion, because if someone’s coming in brand new, we talked before about community pages that never change. Like I’m shopping for a house in Columbus, Ohio. I see happy acres, click on it, and it says Happy acres now opening. And it’s July. And I come back in September, if it just says Happy acres now open or happy acres still coming, you know, coming soon, or grand opening. And I’m like nothing’s changed. There is no movement here. There’s no urgency. There’s no reason to want to take the next step quickly. Or welcome back and happy acres says, you know, 15 homes sold in the initial three months, and brand new floor plan just added. That to me is a promotion. It’s just not a coupon or a discount. It makes sense. discount?

Andrew Peek 12:14
Yeah, I agree. Do you think most builders, there needs to be some way for us to have this data, that’d be super cool. I feel like that type of update where you like you’re going from coming soon grand opening into putting them on the site like 20% sold out, or whatever the number would be, may feel like oh, I just I have this chore to do. Because someone’s telling me to do it. But I think buyers are that are actively shopping or like a really considering it. Like that’s really important to them. But it can be overlooked. On the marketing side. If you have 50 communities to like put these little updates on, you’re like, Oh, come on, that’s going to be like four hours on every Friday or whatever time you

Kevin Oakley 12:49
sure. And you got to have a process routine to do it. But yeah, it is vital one for that first impression of Wow, someone’s paying attention. This is updated its current, right. And that relates out to all the other information that they’re seeing if they get a sense that it still says coming soon. And it’s September and it grand open in July, or they’re going to trust everything else on the site in terms of pricing and home site availability and everything else. Right. It’s just all comes into question. And then, so it’s helpful there. But to me the the ironic, slash interesting part is the people that affects the most are the ones further down the funnel, right, because they’re the ones who are really paying attention. And going back again to that same story of when we thought we might move to Columbus, there was a custom home neighborhood, and I was checking that site map every day two or three times a day, because I thought for sure it was going to be gone. It wasn’t an f5 was rational, I would know that it wasn’t because of the sales history there that things were selling actually relatively slowly. But if they had been updating that page on a semi regular basis, every week or two, I would have flipped out even more. But eventually become like nothing’s really happening here. And that’s Yeah, whether it’s description, intro headlines, sitemap updates, all those things that the more current you keep it, it does double duty, both at the top of the funnel, and those who are most interested and potentially right about to convert. I like it.

Jackie Askews 14:15
And I was going to say to I work with one of our builder partners, and they are infamous for extending a lot of their incentives and promotions. And I feel like if there’s somebody there’s a prospect out there that could kind of pick this up, or they’re constantly getting those emails that are saying it’s now pushed for another month or two, and then the new one starts in its push for another month or two, it takes away that urgency, it really kind of kills that that drive if you know, okay, well, it’s probably it’s most likely going to be pushed even longer, I have more time,

Kevin Oakley 14:49
close your ears, if you’re a salesperson, listen to this, protect your emotional health here. But for everyone else listening, I continue to believe that a publicly made promotion discount coupon and type incentive is simply an admission by operations folks that they did something wrong. And so if that’s a continual practice, it’s a it’s a warning flag to me now that doesn’t, don’t just play that to your boss and say, See, Kevin said if it’s that this is that’s not a good idea, either. There’s always an exception to every rule. I was doing a talk with someone, a group of folks a couple weeks ago, and I was talking about my now infamous quote of billboards suck. And they use billboards a lot, but they they were quick to qualify that we look at the pricing, we look at all the details, you know, if you everything does work, I obviously say billboards suck to make sure people are triple checking that and checking themselves and their company’s approach to it. But so there will obviously be that caveat of someone listening here who, instead of some promotions are done well and strategically and and there’s more to it than just an admission of guilt. But generally that’s the case. All right, Jackie, you have a very important PSA. Yeah, I understand.

Jackie Askews 16:04
So I am going to share my technology nightmare that I’m currently living in with this sounds really dark now that I hear myself say this out loud. But I have the iPhone seven still, which is like the archaic Mercia in the world of smartphones. Now. This this phone I am honestly shocked. It’s been holding on to life for this long at this point. So the most recent update was pushed through and it caused my already full phone to crash. And I’m not sure if I’m the only one out there that ignores the constant warning signs of your phone storage is full, or about to be full. But I always would hit cancel like oh, there’s there’s always room. And I am telling you right now there isn’t sometimes because after the update was pushed through, it caused my phone to crash and I lost 5000 photos and videos from the last two years. And much my horror I feel like everybody when something like that happens. You have this small part of you that sits back and tries to be the optimist like oh, it’s okay. Like you’re out the iCloud. Like, I don’t remember turning it on. But it’s definitely turned on. You know, it’s just you automatically assume the way technology is is just smarter than you in a way. So much my horror, my iCloud hadn’t been turned on so it wasn’t sinking. And a backup hadn’t been done. So for anyone who lives on their phone or works and yeah, right. This is basically everybody who has children, pets, somebody who like me is just pictures. I mean, I I’m a huge I document

Kevin Oakley 17:51
Okay, can I help Can I help you I know you got more of the story. But this is just I feel compelled to help people in any type of need. Photos is the most amazing backup. Of course iCloud is great. And all those other things are great, but it doesn’t backup all your videos on your phone unlimited for free. But it does do unlimited photo backups anytime your phone is plugged in and connected to Wi Fi. And so unlike the iCloud messages of you’re running out of space, if you are a an Amazon Prime member, Amazon photos is the way to go. There is no size limit on individual files, or how many photos can be backed up. And they also have a pretty cool AI ability to group everyone into faces. You can search for the word tree or the word dog. So that’s just an easy one. If you’re an Amazon Prime member, you should be using prime photos to back up all of that stuff every night. Cool.

Jackie Askews 18:43
I didn’t even think twice about that. I feel like for the most part have heard about the Google Drive. So I feel like a lot of us are Prime members. I gotta check that out. Yeah, especially Now. Now. I’m like, Major. I’m like, my husband is just one of those things. He’s like, how do you not know these things aren’t turned off? It’s like, well, I just fingered my object.

Kevin Oakley 19:03
Yeah, my it’s his job to protect you. Yeah, that’s right. Right. Don’t let him right.

Jackie Askews 19:08
Can you make me lose all my baby pictures and having an eight month old This is like very This is devastating for me. Because thinking all your pregnancy are showered. I lost my wedding

Kevin Oakley 19:19
video. When our hard drive crashed

Andrew Peek 19:22
you weren’t gonna watch it,

Jackie Askews 19:23
Kevin. Let’s see if that’s just as bad. Yeah, right. That’s what you have to tell yourself. Like I just Winter’s probably going to grow up and think she was adopted. Because at this point, it’s like, where the first eight months of my life. But for anyone who like that’s the moral of the story. So this was earth shattering for me, especially when I went to the Apple Store. And I had the tech come out and they tried everything. And so at the end of the day, factory reset was done. And all my hope was lost. So to make matters worse, I laptop crashed a week later. And I’ve been thinking for you. I told Andrew, you say

Kevin Oakley 20:02
anything, but

Jackie Askews 20:03
you only get restarted again. But just like

Kevin Oakley 20:06
I gave you hope, I think is all I gave

Jackie Askews 20:07
you some hope. Yes, no. So my laptop now after talking to you all I’m going to be taking it in for surgery with the Geek Squad. And I don’t know why all things technology or just fighting the dust of my hands and slightly concerned. Now I’m getting the message loud and clear universe, I really am. But this is my due diligence for the 10 of you listening even like whoever to use me as a public service announcement. Make sure your iCloud your Google jive your prime photos is turned on your content is backed up or saved somewhere. And to not stay stagnant for so long doing and using the same things because it will eventually cause a crash in some way. And and this made me think to relying on your old software, digital technology can only get you so far. You’re gonna find yourself in the dust. When because our world our marketing world evolves way too quick

Kevin Oakley 21:06
answer. Have you had anything crash on you like that?

Andrew Peek 21:08
I think I have. But I feel like I’ve I’m used to kind of have stuff locally.

Kevin Oakley 21:14
It’s like a modern era where everything is backed up like

Andrew Peek 21:18
little things will be annoying. But like the way we function like okay, I get at editor I get Excel, I get, you know, maybe 30 minutes of downloading stuff, and then I’ll be good to go. Like when I got this new laptop, the razor I forget what it was. But yeah, yeah, 1015 minutes later, I’m like, Okay, well, I could I could start working.

Kevin Oakley 21:37
Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember. I mean, it used to be such a pain every other year to build a new machine and have to re download everything and transfer hard drives. And now like you said, it’s just literally turn it back on re download Adobe studio. Yep, Creative Cloud, put Dropbox back on, I use back blaze as well. It’s an unlimited backup tool. And what’s nice is, it also does version backup. So if there’s a file that I know, two days ago, was a better version of it, I can go back and instantly restore any of them. But if you haven’t catastrophic failure, they ship you a hard drive like overnight, with your two terabytes worth of data on it. And it’s just much faster, obviously, than trying to restore all that. It’s relatively inexpensive. We probably should put a link in the show notes down there for it. But yeah, yeah. Because nowadays, if anything in mind went down, like you said, Andrew, maybe an hour of inconvenience, but unless, I mean, obviously have to have some working machine somewhere. But getting back up on a new machine is relatively painless.

Jackie Askews 22:40
That’s why I was gonna say just after that happened, and especially with, you know, working remote, I mean, it was just within an hour, I was able to kind of jump right back in, which was a pleasure mind. Actually, I think it’s that easy. But Yep. Don’t trust Don’t be like me, don’t lose two years of your life.

Kevin Oakley 23:03
Okay, I got two quick ones quick in quotes, I’ll try to make it quick about just attribution craziness and how when you’re in the process of changing or going from from one form of attribution or tracking data to another, the things to watch out for be aware of Don’t let yourself be confused or misled by the first is an example for the online sales people are those managing online sales programs out there is, if historically, you have not been requiring an appointment, time and date to be set to get credit for online sales attribution. I am for example, if I call up, Jackie answers the phone Jackie talks to me but doesn’t set an appointment. And I go out anyway. There are lots of companies unfortunately, who would still give full credit to Jackie for that, because they Jackie talked to me, she somehow interacted. And so when I show up, if my name is already in the CRM, whether or not an opening, it has been scheduled, Jackie gets credit. Now Jackie likes that the company might think they have great looking numbers and metrics. But in comparison to how do you convert, we attribute what that position is contributing. We want a set time and date appointment where they show up and do the handoff process, etc. And it’s not uncommon every year we have a couple folks that we’re working with who are transitioning from one to another. And if you don’t like have a sticky note on your screen, or you tattoo it on your right arm somewhere, every time you go back and look at the numbers for the next year. You’re like Wait, are things getting better? I’m not sure this is confusing, because you’re comparing now potentially a lower in air quotes, appointment or sales contribution rate. But the old one was kind of a lie slash misleading. I I agree houses like

Andrew Peek 24:53
that make sense? I love this stuff. You can’t get can’t compare it like it’s not even fair.

There’s no way.

Kevin Oakley 25:01
So yeah, you can’t compare. But if you don’t remember that, at any point in time, when you pull up that report, you’re like, Oh, my gosh, things are down 15%. Well, actually, if you were able to somehow go back in time and figure out only what was directly attributable to a set date time, you might be surprised that things are consistently getting better. So that’s that’s one little quick story from the online sales and from the marketing attribution. And one of the things that we see fairly regularly when we’re auditing or starting to work with somebody is they’re giving paid search, and incredible amount of attribution love, but it’s based on first click and branded terms. So I’ll just use heartland because that’s that was my place. But if someone types in heartland homes near me, or new homes in Pittsburgh, heartland homes, whatever, if I have a paid search ad, and I’m paying the money to focus on that branded term, if that ad is worded, done really well, it will likely out when that click over and organic term right below it, which would cost you nothing. So there’s already a challenge there. But even worse, if that branded search term goes to a landing page, or some other gated content place where it’s requiring contact information. So again, just to back up and slow down, I type in the name of the builder, and some other term. So I have to already have awareness of it from somewhere else other than search, right? I have to know to type that name in. So I type in the name of the builder and some other term that that ad shows up, I click on it, I convert, I give them my contact information. There are a lot of companies who would then say, Okay, great. The reason Kevin acquis in our system is because of paid search. And that is not entirely accurate, because of what we just said, I had to know that the brand existed from some other form of marketing, digital or otherwise. And then potentially even worse, if you don’t understand that there are companies who will take it a step further and say, if Kevin Oakley than ever ends up coming out on site to visit a sales office, and the CRM, I will look back and say, Oh, yeah, they came because of paid search, paid searches, awesome Look at how great paid search is doing. But there’s, there’s no direct connection there. And because you’re forcing it or stealing it from organic, it can get really muddy really fast. And then the craziest of all

is when someone then attributes at the time of sale, how did this person find out about us know, paid search? And so again, it’s like, Well, wait, did they not use any other sources? How did they become aware of the brand entirely. And so this is just another example of attribution, artificial intelligence, machine learning, all these things sound great, and I’m glad that our industry is talking about them. But you got to be really careful, because overly simplistic in your approach, understand that there are nuances to consider. And also you have to, again, we’ve talked about this in a while, if you’re working with an outside partner, especially or an internal partner. In some cases, we’ve seen that, you know, internally, they’re doing this and they have that same approach. What is the incentive for that department or that company and doing it that way? You know, the incentive is pretty clear on this one in that they say, look at all we’ve done for you, we’re, we’ve got all these names in the system, we got all these appointments, we got all these sales, and it’s all from this paid search term that we only had to spend 75 cents on Isn’t that great? But it’s your brand name. That’s a so there’s so much to add to that like, anyway, that’s the only you can’t scale it that’s approaching rant length there,

Andrew Peek 28:45
but you can’t like that

Jackie Askews 28:47
but I agree.

Andrew Peek 28:49
it says 20% more leads What can we do? But you can’t increase the PPC budget because it’s only you can’t do that. Yeah, that’s. Yeah, it’s naughty. Yeah,

Kevin Oakley 29:00
in essence, and again, it’s not every time it is like remarketing versus getting a new visitor in if they’re already aware of the brand than it is, in essence, kind of pretty much Yeah, like a remarketing tactic. And then I’ll let you chime in here, Jackie, the other thing that really drives me crazy is if we in auditing that company, we also then do unbranded searches for terms that are clearly things they should be bidding on. But they’re not because all the money is tied up in brand terms. Because the metrics are amazing. So it makes sense. So new homes, Columbus, Ohio doesn’t show up on or new homes, Hilliard, Ohio whatever submarket term you want to use. But if I say heartland homes, Columbus, Ohio, there, there it is. Now that just doesn’t make any sense.

Jackie Askews 29:44
I feel like with the numbers at the end of the day getting so muddied, it just reminds me of how certain filter clients, I you know, I have one in my head in particular, where certain times they count page views and that the term turnover with click rate, they count certain things like get directions. And I feel like when you’re more or less documenting the wrong aspects of what you really want. You’re not even getting a clear picture, at the end of the day of the results, whether that’s get directions, view community map, different things like that, yes, at the end of the day, it’s it that’s not the number that you want for people to come over to the site per se.

Kevin Oakley 30:30
Well, yeah, generally speaking, we wouldn’t recommend that those be counted as conversion actions. I mean, if they’re there, but everyone on the team understands that they have lower value, but they’re still there, then that’s, again, there’s always caveats and exceptions to the rule. And if your onsite team is amazing at capturing and inputting contact information, once they get there, then you could follow that whole funnel, and figure out how many what the relationship is to print directions to actual traffic. But the problem is that what we see is even with digital registration tools, still vast under reporting, which is why we interviewed the gentleman from door and Google signals is potentially a promising insight into actual traffic count as well coming down the line. But yeah, that basically that’s the importance of the marketer analyzing the data and communicating the story clearly. And if you’re not the marketer understanding enough to be able to dig in and figure out is there real value being created here or not by what’s been done? All right, we’re going to shift over to the news. But before we do, just a quick reminder, you can call in and leave us a voicemail anytime you like about this episode or any other that you’ve listened to in the past that number is 404-369-25954 or 404-369-2595. Leave us a voicemail, you’ll win a prize, and we will play that song.

Andrew Peek 31:57
Maybe that’s that off. Nice. Call me! Maybe that right?

Kevin Oakley 32:03
That is terrible.

Okay, as we jump into the news, quick, mea culpa, I don’t but I mentioned a while ago that the Seth Godin podcast Akimbo did not have ads on it. So they use the technology there were when you download the episode, a ad gets inserted, just immediately prior to download it. I had been previously been listening to the stream only version, which did not use that technology. So there I got a couple people both in person, and via email be like, I don’t know what you’re doing with your ads on that podcast.

Andrew Peek 32:39
That is enormous system. Ooh. Alright, let’s

Kevin Oakley 32:42
hop into the real thing that’s been taking over the internet for the last couple days here.

Andrew Peek 32:48
FaceApp. It make it look old. Yes. Any?

Jackie Askews 32:52
Anyone? If anyone has been on Facebook in the last week, feel like it’s flooding your newsfeed. Yeah. And

Kevin Oakley 33:00
I just in talking to people this past week, marketers expressing frustration that nothing is getting done. And sales managers are like all I know, I can’t give an answer to this question. But I have gotten a face app screenshot from every other person in the company since I

So why are we talking about this? Besides the fact that it’s viral? What what? What’s the other piece of this that’s been popping up? Especially the last couple days?

Jackie Askews 33:29
I think most things with any type of viral app, you have everybody who jumps on board, and then the other side of it that fears that their life is just going to be taken out from under them from Russia, or so just diving into that the privacy side of it.

Kevin Oakley 33:46
Yep, exactly. So, headline from Forbes.com viral app faceapp now owns access to more than 150 million people’s faces and names.

Jackie Askews 33:56
Wow.

Kevin Oakley 33:57
So what does this really mean? What you’re getting granting them access to use any image submitted for any purposes, marketing or otherwise without compensation, notification, etc. So what’s interesting here is it kind of makes it sound like they’re being nice, like, you still own the photo to like, you can still have it, but they also can use it for whatever else they want to do. And so people are trying to make a connection. This is similar to the Cambridge Analytica issue where that’s where this obviously is a good reminder of why privacy is so important, and should be talked about and things done to make it better and more transparent. But at the same time, it’s also a good example of people don’t really seem to care, or still yet have an understanding that they even need to slow down and think about it. If something is truly becoming viral. It seems like the vast majority of the population says, I’m really not that worried about my privacy. Yep, there you go.

Jackie Askews 34:57
I feel like a lot of those apps that you end up with a like an agreements page to page in the size to font and it’s like a hole in and I think that everybody just all the way you know goes all the way down schools all the way to the bottom and just agree into the next day, they may not realize that these apps have access to refreshing in the background or access to more than just photos like your search or so. Yeah, I’d be curious to see

Kevin Oakley 35:26
and and what the article says you know, quote from a gentleman named Rob Lugess, I don’t know how to say his last name to make face up actually work. You have to give it permission to access your photos, all of them. But it also gains access to Siri and search. Oh, and it has access to refreshing in the background. So even when you’re not using it, it is using you. Yeah. And then I kind of go on to say, even though there’s no evidence of anything nefarious being I originally saw articles about, like this is owned by Russia. And I’m not sure all the rest of that. But even though it’s not doing anything nefarious today, it’s simply another place collecting a lot of data and who knows if it gets hacked into or used differently later. Like it the genies out of the bottle bag. That’s not what you need a jar. Aladdin, what a genius come out of lamps.

Jackie Askews 36:11
The lamps. Yeah, yeah. Wait, so more or less, I guess if you’re using these these viral apps, but just once you’re done using them? Couldn’t you just delete them? Wouldn’t that just almost

Kevin Oakley 36:25
Yeah, they give up they get snapshot, but they’re not getting more.

Andrew Peek 36:29
Download this too. So can you Yes, admit if you did.

Jackie Askews 36:33
You didn’t either. I have four kids.

Kevin Oakley 36:35
I’m a dad. I’m just not cool anymore. Like I

Jackie Askews 36:39
I’m not gonna lie. I don’t want to know what I look like in 30 years, when I have a ton of wrinkles. I have like a nice ice cream to prevent that. So I’m

Kevin Oakley 36:48
good. The irony to me is I feel like the first 510 percent of the people on the floor the same ones who use filters to remove all the wrinkles from their face. Yes, I think it’s like a it’s like a problem active. It’s like if I call something out as being strange about me, then you can’t have the power of that. Does that make sense? Like, okay, here’s the ugliest or the oldest I may ever look. So it’s not going to get worse than this isn’t as hilariously funny. And you know, it’s just interesting.

Andrew Peek 37:14
But that wrinkles.

Jackie Askews 37:17
Right? Yeah, right. Right.

Kevin Oakley 37:20
Right. And a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to be very funny, which if everyone wasn’t doing it, it would have been something funny. But all these people like, I went to vacation and look what happened. It’s like, but like, it’s very clear. This is what everyone’s posting a picture of themselves holds Not really, you know what,

Jackie Askews 37:35
the wind is really cool, though, about this. And it’s certain people and I saw this on my newsfeed, I have a friend who sells the Rodin and Fields face care line, and she’s been capitalizing, I think the company itself has been capitalizing and marketing based off. And they’ve been saying, you know, it’s not like the face that you see on your face that hear you go. Isn’t that awesome? I, it was very cool. Yeah, they were like, here’s the way to prevent.

Kevin Oakley 38:08
Yes, I should just, they should just create our pay the developers of one of those other anti aging filter companies or ass and just create out their own branded one where you upload your face out photo, and then it takes wrinkles off with the slider, like how much product you want to apply. Chicago, it’s amazing.

Jackie Askews 38:28
I’m not gonna lie that That to me was really cool to see something viral, like a mark as a marketing strategy. Very cool. Kind of.

Andrew Peek 38:37
Yeah. Before?

Jackie Askews 38:39
Yes, I’d be tablets that I bought my extra I cream after that. Okay. It’s so much more.

Kevin Oakley 38:48
That’s awesome. All right, let’s go on to the last news article for the day. And again, we’re going to talk around this article, you should go read it yourself. But for the sake of time, we won’t cover it in depth. Amazon. This is from Digiday.com incredible advantage how Amazon’s Sizmek acquisition will address its DSP weakness. Okay, what’s the DSP demand side platform, think Google double click, it’s a way to control and manage large volumes of display ad content, sometimes using other data sources and information. And Amazon has one of what makes it so unique, even though historically, it’s not as powerful as Google’s and some others is that Amazon’s Amazon’s demand side platform is the only one that allows you to use Amazon first party data. And what that means is actual purchase and shopping behavior made using Amazon’s app website or services. So the example that’s easy to understand is if I buy a toothbrush from Amazon, and then those folks who make and sell toothpaste, can use that data to remarket to me using Amazon’s platform and so off of Amazon, I think that’s the off of Amazon, and other places, but especially on Amazon. Yeah, they

Andrew Peek 40:06
could be like, oh, Andrew just moved. He just bought nine fans off of Amazon. He probably needs a new, whatever. dimmer switch or something? Yeah. Yeah. Or Yeah, or home advisor, like need help installing those fans? Yeah, yep.

Kevin Oakley 40:22
And so while the Sizmek acquisition, they’re saying right, now, they’re going to keep it as two different groups and keep the information and data separate. You imagine that at some point, Amazon’s current DSP, which is, doesn’t have all the rich features that Sizmek does, but Sizmek doesn’t have the data at some point, those two are going to get, get married, and create something potentially really interesting. And the other reason we were talking about this right now, besides the fact a lot of people don’t know, you can even advertise directly with Amazon. This way, is the same thing that Andrew and I have been talking about for I think since beginning the podcast is just have all these privacy concerns that people have. Amazon never seems to be making the list, despite the fact that they know, potentially more valuable information than anyone else, which is what we’re actually purchasing. And how at what frequency at what prices, what brands, and all the rest on top of all the other data that I’m sure they’re buying from an aggregating from everyone else that sells consumer data online? Oh, yeah,

Andrew Peek 41:21
I just pulled up my Amazon account. 60 This is embarrassing. 82 orders in the past six months. Wow. So that’s like a whole um, you could see like the story as far as if you were to

Jackie Askews 41:31
say mine, I’m an avid Amazon user as well, me, especially having a kid. It’s just all these different new faces and toys and food plates. And it’s amazing. You, they really do know, probably more than than most.

Kevin Oakley 41:49
for now they’re laying under the radar. Just think of spirit. Very interesting. Marketing, branding, PR strategy, you know, it’s just something to watch and see how it unfolds is are they going to try to become a privacy oriented like apple? Are they going to kind of be more like a Facebook and say, Hey, the consumer is giving us this data. We can use it how we want just something, something interesting to see how it plays out. All right, that does it for the news. We’re gonna take a quick break and we come back, we’re going to join Chad Sanschagrin from Cannonball Moments and go swimming in the deep end of the pool. Awesome. We’ll be right back.

And we’re back with Chad Sanschagrin CEO of Cannonball moments for 360 topics swimming in the deep end. Because Chad is amazingly tall. Like when I saw him at the builders show, I knew you were a well built man. But when I saw you in South Central, I had to look up, even though I was halfway across the room to see. So we can go to the deep end, right? I’m not a great swimmer. My kids all swim better than me. But like Chad is our lifeguard here. As we go into the deep end of the pool, make sure that we all are all taken care of. And of course, how do you get in the pool? If you’re living your best life? You’re doing a cannonball into the deep end off the diving board. Right. So bringing it all together. Thanks so much for joining us, Chad. We’ve been communicating digitally for Gosh, almost two years. I feel like now

Chad Sanschagrin 43:33
Oh, at least Yeah, at least I think I reached out to you. But everybody knows who Kevin Oakley is. Right? So it’s synonymous with? Yeah, it’s crazy. Famous Oh my gosh, what do you see him you see him around IBS to some of these events around and, you go. That’s Kevin Oakley over there. That’s Kevin Oakley. And and so nobody knew who I was. So I’m like, you know, and again, I don’t blend well, as you just described. So it’s not I’m like, he’s in my way into a conversation. It’s like, all of a sudden you’re in an empty field. And next 2 seconds later there’s a redwood tree standing next to you. So it’s,

Kevin Oakley 44:09
that is hard. Like, if you just walk up to someone casually at seal Central, they might think you’re the bouncer. Okay, nice. I didn’t do anything. I didn’t take it. I didn’t touch it.

Chad Sanschagrin 44:18
Well, it’s not like you can slide into a conversation when you walk over like, you cast a shadow shadow on everybody. So yes, I saw you a lot. And then finally, I remember just reaching out to you, I reached out to you, or you reach out to me. And it’s like, this guy is just a wealth of knowledge. And we talked about your your mission trip. So you’ve done with your family. And I find that super amazing. And so I started following that I still donate every month and heavily follow them on my bucket list to take my kids on trips. So that’s awesome.

Kevin Oakley 44:49
We’ll get you over there. I was drawn to you, I’d seen you posts back when you were with forest group in different contexts, then where you really cut through all the clutter for me was when you made the video of yourself sitting on a tree stump somewhere, after you had submitted for the builder show and been denied. And that was just you know, who doesn’t want to root for an underdog? Not that you technically are an underdog, but it was just like, That was amazing. And ever since then you’ve grown your own fan club of let’s get this guy in. And and this is the year right?

Chad Sanschagrin 45:23
Yes, is it? I mean, if I took five years, five years in 19, or 20, different submissions, and I finally got accepted this year. And what’s crazy is I did it. And you know, this is how I think your ego has to you know, you really have to get your ego in check. You know, I I submitted every year when I worked for FPG as a trainer at summit, and I didn’t get in and know Jason was the big draw there. So it’s hard to get more than one person in the company. And I, in my mind, I made sense to this right side why wasn’t getting in. And then I left FPG and started America money. And I was like, Well, certainly I’ll get in now, right? Because now I’m the CEO. summit. And they’re like, yeah, you’re not good in. And I’m like, This is crazy. And immediately your, your ego wants to create a lot of excuses. So the first year of being an owner of my own company and submitting, and I’m not kidding, I remember I sat in my office today, I didn’t get accepted. And I had probably a 30 minute conversation of the way our brains just try to justify things. Well, I didn’t get in because it’s all political, you know, that chat. It’s literally having this conversation with myself, right? It’s political, and you got to know somebody. And finally, I realized after this 30 minute conversation that all this talk was not going to get me what I wanted, it was going to make me feel better in the moment, it was not going to give me the IVF. If anything, it was only going to alienate me further away from the chances. So from that very moment, I was like I next year submission, I’m going to figure this out, and I’m really going to figure it out. So I still started asking people that were had spoken there before. Hey, what did you do to get in? What do you like? And I literally just start calling people I didn’t even know and saying what was your secret? Everybody had their advice. And then I was talking to a good friend Chris Hartley of mine, and Rhonda Konger, nice, IBS, we’re standing and sale satchel. And I was like, in a chat that you should be in. I’m like, I didn’t get in. And they said, You know what? Why don’t we go in together? And I was like, What? And you know, you when you say something to somebody, but you don’t really mean it you like, just be a nice? Well, it registered with me. And I like mental checkbox. I was like, all right. And a week later, I texted Chris. And I said, Chris, when you were saying he’s like, you know, I would love to share this Dave do I know Rhonda meant to put the two of them on a text a record? And sure enough, they they were like, yeah, we would love it. And so I got in, solely, because they allowed me to piggyback on to that, which is so incredible, right?

Kevin Oakley 48:02
It’s incredible. And it’s the way that I think almost everyone almost gets in and that there’s this there’s a known quantity. And even though you’ve been out and about your maybe an unknown quantity to whoever’s making those selections is is brilliant. And I just loved being able to, to see that progress over multiple years of trying and being again, candid and open on social media about the process. Let’s zoom out a bit, though. And talk just quickly about your we know now your origin story for being a award winning IVF speaker. But

Chad Sanschagrin 48:35
yeah, but I appreciate the pre out there.

Kevin Oakley 48:38
On your LinkedIn profile, we go all the way back to hotel experience. But also the first thing that stuck out is the five years with Richmond American. So tell us a little bit about your origin story quickly from Richmond American to where you are now.

Chad Sanschagrin 48:52
Yeah, so I started at Richmond American, I managed to tell for a while and one day just said, You know, I want to do something different. And a friend of mine owned a own still one of the largest sign companies build a directional sign signage companies in Maryland and the East Coast. And he said you should go into new home sales. Unlike what they never thought, I’m 35 years old at the time, you should go into new home sales. And I’m like, this isn’t I’m not that guy. I can’t build things. I have very soft hands. I’m not a manually type guy. That’s not me, right? So it’s always like, no, Chad, Listen, I’ve never sold anything in my life, like not as a sales professional. And I know you’d be great. So I went. And I like the idea that as he as he started talking about it, I never considered it but I thought what an amazing like job career to be involved in somebody’s life in them buying a home. Like there’s always a story there’s a there’s a first term or retirement home or whatever it may be like this, to me just seems perfect. And I really wanted that Hallmark moment. Nobody ever discussed money with me it wasn’t about salary was about it was just about finding something that gave me a really good sense of significance and worth.

Kevin Oakley 50:10
The significance of worse sounds better than drug because I always think back to that commercial from the 80s of no one ever says, I want to be a druggie when I grew up. And I flippantly kind of connect got to know and says, I want to be in the new home industry when I

Chad Sanschagrin 50:25
nobody thinks about that

Kevin Oakley 50:26
is the same metaphor continues in that if you get in it and you like it, it is a drug that you can never quit.

Chad Sanschagrin 50:33
Yeah, I agree. And the drug the drug is not I think that people are confused sometimes. I’ll tell you tell you this great story. I never worked in a commission job before that, right. And so I start and I literally knew nothing about homebuilding and nothing. And I was in a training class. And when I first started and they were talking about were literally American was a two by six builder. And people were like, Oh my God, this this is a great differentiator. This, I literally raised my hand and said, What’s a two by sentence? Uh huh. And they’re like, what? And so, so the idea was like, I didn’t know what I didn’t know. And that was the greatest tool in the world. For me. I didn’t know about salary. I didn’t know. They explained to me when I got hired about this draw system about how you got paid my entire life. I had been you show up to work for two weeks, you get a paycheck, you show up to two weeks, you get a paycheck, right? But they I didn’t really understand it. And I didn’t really care about how I got paid. It was important. I got paid. Obviously, I had bills, and but it wasn’t a driving factor for me. And so I remember fast forward, I did really well. And I did really well, because I just didn’t know any different. It was 2007 2008 the housing market has crashed, there was nobody else apply. And I became the number one salesperson in the country. I was blowing everybody away. I know I I educated myself. I put myself through my own training program. As far as learning how to build a home, I spent two time with the land developers, I created literally my own three month training program. I went to my boss and said, Hey, can I create they didn’t have a training program. That point they had sales training, my husband was actually a sales trainer. And I got to know my is really well that was all new to me, because I’d never been through sales training. But I put together my own training program where I spent a couple weeks in Atlanta a couple of weeks in construction a couple weeks in this and before I even tried to sell house. And then I became I just inundated my psyche. Everything was about home building and building. And it was amazing. And so I would start my day at seven in the morning, I would drop my kids off of school, I start my day by going to my community. This is literally before I even like taking a shower or anything. I dropped my kids to school, I drive to my community, I’d walk every single house under construction with a set of blueprints. This is at seven o’clock in the morning. And I would just study like what had happened the day before. And I would take notes, and then I would go home, I’d be the model and attend. I’d go home, I do that from seven to eight 39 o’clock. And then I go home shower real quick, I live close to my community, I would drive back right open the sale center, I’d worked all day. And then at six o’clock with a sale center closed, I would walk through every house again, I would lock them all up, I would write down what happened. And it was like it was it was phenomenal. It was so obsessed

Kevin Oakley 53:21
the amount of discipline that you’re describing, though, I just want to pause there for a second because I just got done reading a book called range generalist triumph in a specialized world by David Epstein. And what you’re describing mirrors a lot of the things in that book, which is you didn’t say I am I’m a salesperson. So I just need to learn closing techniques. No, right. And you don’t know how to felt the contract. You went beyond that. And as a marketer, I did the same thing. I My first job was just do the Sunday ad. And I was done with that on Tuesday for the newspaper. And I just started figuring all this other things and and I am not claiming to be disciplined in all areas of my life at all. or, frankly, I just needed run like you do. But when I got my job in Pittsburgh with heartland I made my own flipbook of every elevation and floor plans. So that day one, I had all 40 of those suckers memorized and every four variations that they could offer. So that just wasn’t an apparent to me and I think to minute today, in marketing and sales people are just so focused, well, that’s not what I do. So I don’t need to understand or have any awareness of it. And I think that’s, that’s awesome. That is awesome. And no surprise that you jumped to the top.

Chad Sanschagrin 54:32
Yeah, it’s good. It’s crazy. And that’s why I did it. I did it because I really, I really wanted to serve those people that came in the very best I could, you know, I came from hotels, which was so customer centric. And what I was learning about home, by the way from the beginning, that it wasn’t nearly as customer centric. And it was maybe it was because the time you know, it was this huge housing crisis. Maybe it was because it never was. But I couldn’t understand. I couldn’t understand it. So I was like, No, I’m, I was all in and every better I got. And the more I learned about just what I was selling, just what I was selling, the more intrigued a guy It was like I was pulling that you’re pulling that thread. It was like, Man, this where’s this gonna take me? Where is this gonna take me I was learning things are to the point where I knew the homes as well as the superintendent’s did. And this is I’m not I don’t have a college education. So this wasn’t like I’ve been a lifelong student. I was I graduated high school with a 1.9 grade point average. So this isn’t like this is all new to me. But this whole idea of having a growth mindset when it came to home building, I was fascinated by it. But I was fascinated by it. Because I knew the better that I became, the more people’s lives I improved and it sounds so cliche or so corny, but I really like bought into this whole idea and end up selling a ton of home like crazy amount of Holmes. And I never go back to like what drove it, it was never about the money. I remember I got my first commission check. We get like, we got this draw system. I got my first commission check. And it was a direct deposit I never did for the commission statement, the commission statement, I just you know, the money went my account, and I said whatever. And I remember getting paid. And I looked into my account, and there was this, like, ungodly amount of money. It was like $19,000 or something like that. And I pulled I literally pulled over as it gets pulled over as the gas by members of GSA parts department. And I call that payroll person. I said, Hey, listen, I don’t remember the lady’s name. But there’s something wrong with my my paycheck. And I need the money. Right? Like it’s all there. It’s all there. And she goes, I know she said you had to pay back, you know, two months of forgivable job, otherwise, you would have got all of it and I went, No, no. What are you talking about? I said, You mean this money is mine. And she is what I said, the money that is in my account is mine the key? It wasn’t a mistake. As he said, she said no. And I said, I said Listen, I’m I was getting ready to go to my community. Because I was gonna do my pre walkthrough. I said, I’m going to come to the office and meet with you real quick. I drove 45 minutes down to the often I say you gotta explain to me how I get paid. Because this is crazy amount of money for doing this, right? I remember calling my wife and I’m like, we’re going to sizzler the night baby. This is like. So I think I think what the reason I was successful in new home sales was because I really, I wasn’t commissioned focus, I was mission focused, I was really mission focused on improving the lives of the people that I got to interact with. I know I’ve seen it firsthand, growing up with a single mother, who didn’t have we didn’t have a ton of money, the the significance of puts when somebody is given the keys that house and to me, I’d have flashes back, like there’s always a backstory. And so for me, that was such the focus I was on that i i really excelled at it. And it was in why I’m, I think why I’m successful takes I understand that impact

Andrew Peek 58:16
of a jump in real quick. I love that. Well, I have two questions for you. For the first one. Do you think your authority on on everything that was going on in that community was was like just I’ve never worked the sales job before? So maybe I’m butchering terms here, but like the the trust and just knowledge, like when they spoke to you versus a competing community where where they’re like, Hey, what’s Tell me about that house? You know, a prospect comes in? And they’re like, Yeah, I don’t know, like, we get data at the end of the weekend. Where’s you they met with you? And they’re like, Oh, no, you literally told me 10 different things about this home.

Kevin Oakley 58:46
It’s amazing. And PS I walked that house, you know, yesterday So no,

Chad Sanschagrin 58:50
yeah, 100%. They knew they knew. And every day, I’d said, so if I walked through a house that was under construction for one of my buyers, it wasn’t a quick delivery home or spec home, whatever the terminology want to use. So every morning, when I walked home, I wasn’t just walking with the blueprints taken, I was taking pictures sending them to the client every morning. They didn’t have to come because they were getting text messages of their home at 730 in the morning. So they knew. And if there was a broken window, guess what, I tend to picture the broken window, say, Hey, listen, I was walking to there’s a broken window. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, I don’t want you to stress out about it. We’re on top of it. So there was no like, I never had to worry about them coming to the community going, Hey, Chad, there’s a broken window, and then them creating a story that something’s happening and giving them that uncertainty. So there was some level communication, that, that it just it lowered the stress level. I think that most people, if you I mean this honestly, and this probably goes against what most people think. But if you put a crystal ball in front of somebody, and you said, you’re going to make a decision right now to buy a home, and you can look in this crystal ball, and it’s going to lay out every day from today, the day you right to the right contract, until the day before you settle. So the time from day one, you write the contract to the day before you settle. So you’re gonna be able to see the building process, you’re gonna be able to see the mortgage process, you’re going to be able to see, I’m telling you, 99.99999% of the people would never choose to build a home.

Andrew Peek 1:00:17
I think Kevin’s like me and

Kevin Oakley 1:00:23
Andrews about a week away from closing.

Chad Sanschagrin 1:00:26
Because just because it’s such a unbelievable rollercoaster of emotions. And so to me, understanding that and saying to somebody right from the get go, listen, this is going to be the most stressful thing you’ve ever one of the most stressful things you’ve ever done not painting a picture. But this is what I’m going to tell you. I got you through this whole thing. So I’m going to be one step ahead of you and be one fully transparent. I’m going to make time to make sure that you’re okay, I’m going to send you pictures, I’m going to do this if there’s something wrong, I’m going to tell you, I think that that’s the customer centric part. I think that it’s understanding how those people are going to live over the next nine months, eight months, however long your whole building process takes building a home I salespeople we like to say is it it solves so many problems. Gotcha. And I just said it, it’s like there’s this gratify thing. It’s amazing. That’s after you move it right after you’ve done all that and you’re sitting here right that’s that part but your solution of solving these people’s lives and giving them the so it causes about 10,000 other problems right so yes, you do solve this problem. But now you call it a problem because I got think about moving twice I gotta think so Chad but my kids in school

Kevin Oakley 1:01:35
are you telling me that you didn’t take the marketing flyer that said there are three simple steps to home At home ownership are find your home site find your house? In?

Chad Sanschagrin 1:01:45
No. Oh my god. It’s so crazy. Because it’s it paints such the wrong image of like, it’s they think like they’re buying a set of knickers. I don’t even know what knickers are on Amazon.

Kevin Oakley 1:01:57
I think they’re pants,

Chad Sanschagrin 1:02:00
I don’t even know I’ve never even use that terminology knickers before but but to me, it’s understanding that our when we get involved at this level of people’s lives, that you have to you have to be fully committed to all of them. I mean, all of them, not just the part that serves you best because it gets you a commission and get them in a house. But all of them, they’re stressed about having to find movies, they’re stressed about having to move their kids out to a different school. And so, you know, one of the things you said Andrew was, because I was the mayor of that community, it was like I embraced that relationship, because I’m asking somebody to take my take my opinion in my level of relationship with them. And I’m asking them to make a decision that’s going to affect their entire life, the family’s life, if you don’t hold that in high reverence, then you shouldn’t be doing this job. That’s and I don’t mean that in the sense of like, judgmental, like listening to, you know, like, that’s a lot of weight to bear on your shoulders, and either you are going to live up and have reference to that and that significance. Or you should I do something that doesn’t have such an impact on somebody’s life.

Kevin Oakley 1:03:06
Now that we know that’s where you’re coming from. I’m even more interested to hear Andrew ask you this.

Andrew Peek 1:03:10
How you had time for my next question, which is, hopefully there’s as much excitement about it. But so you had your morning, you walk to communities you sell during the day, and the evening, close everything up? How did you find time to interact with marketing? And how was your interaction with, with marketing? What did that even look like?

Chad Sanschagrin 1:03:28
Yeah, so this was it was really a trial and error thing. Because here’s what happened. I’ve talked about myself, if I get caught up, I got caught up in the idea of I gotta be the mayor of the community, I gotta do this, I gotta do that. And there’s a really fine line between going all in and being there all for the customer. And understanding and arrogance of I can do this without anybody else. Right. So I blurred that line. Like I was like, Well, I don’t need marketing stuff. I don’t need online sales Council. So I got this. I got right. And it was and it wasn’t done. Because I felt like I was better than these other people. Just because I wanted to control everything. I felt like, well, if I can control it, it better served that way. Right? If I control it all, it’s better, sir. That works really well, until you have about more than three houses under backlog. Right, right. And then all of a sudden, you’re like, oh, like, Wait, how do I handle? How do I serve? How do I handle all this? And so I thought at the time that marketing’s role was to get me traffic. That was it. Like you just get traffic to me and and not only does it have to be traffic doesn’t need to be traffic, let me tell you the kind of traffic need to be qualified, definitely ready, willing and able buyers, they have to really like the color purple, and they better like Game of Thrones Game of Thrones wasn’t around back then. But like I put all these stipulations on what, like what they had to do. And it’s such an arrogant, like, self serving mindset. And I didn’t realize that at the time. That’s that’s how it came across is the same thing with online sales was like these people that tried to call and set up appointments for me like, Don’t they know, I’m busy? Like, how I look back at now. I’m like, What an idiot, right? Yeah, they’re trying to set appointments for me. And I’m like, looking at gift horse in the mouth. And so then I realized that one, these people were here to help, right? These are here to actually make my life more of help me make my life more efficient, help me?

Kevin Oakley 1:05:23
Hopefully, they are. I mean, I just want to be honest, that that you got to qualify that that. Obviously, that’s what marketing should be trying to do. Sometimes marketers are also those closet OCD control freaks, who want to make the salespeople dance on the strings of the puppet, right? Just do what I say, you know,

Chad Sanschagrin 1:05:39
no question.

Kevin Oakley 1:05:40
No question. If you got the right team member, then yes, absolutely. Yeah,

Chad Sanschagrin 1:05:43
I think it’s again, I think it’s like any other relationship. It’s 100 hundred. And I went, I remember going to the marketing person that was there. And she was amazing. And I didn’t have a relationship with her. And I said to her, how can I be better? And I remember having this conversation I didn’t, and I came out with like, how come be better and it didn’t come out? Like I wasn’t like, asking her to like, become my own self help book. Right? Like, I wasn’t like I wasn’t that was what it meant. But like, how can I have exponential growth? And how can I help more people? How can I expand this platform? How can I make this community better? And her and I sat down, and we had a great conversation? I said, Listen, I don’t know, I don’t know anything about marketing. Like I know, I don’t, I don’t have an MBA, I don’t I’ve worked in hotels where there was no, there was no real need to marketing and what I did, so I didn’t again, I just didn’t know. And so we came up with a plan. And she was supportive of me and I was supportive of her. And we met we literally talked once a week on how we can do things. And he was the big differentiator for me. And I would love to get your takes on this. But I always thought that it was the generating traffic was 100% the responsibility of marketing. Like that was it like marketing, you bring me traffic. And when I realized that is that really is not the case. And it shouldn’t be the case, vacation be it’s it’s 100% 100 hundred, right? Like it’s 200% my responsibility to bring traffic in it’s 100% their responsibility to bring traffic. And let’s figure this out together if you have two people that are rowing the boat in the same direction that have the same desired outcome. So marketing has the same desired outcome that I have, which is to impact the lives of the people that come in this community that do business with us that we can find. If that’s their outcome, whatever their outcome is, we have the same outcome. It’s amazing what you can accomplish when you don’t care who gets the credit. Like it wasn’t about marketing, do this. I did this and Oh, she’s you know, it’s like, man, how can we spearhead this together? And in order to do that, we both had to lay our egos to the ground. And what we did was we brought I remember, the superintendent has worked with this very first community. His name is Jeff LEINBACH, and so, my I had a meeting and it was me, marketing, our Online Resources Center. And Jeff lab is the four of us met at the model home, there’s the first time they had ever had anybody who’s called all four together in a model home, wasn’t even this no sales manager there. And I said, All right, how can the four of us make this community, the community that I’m talking about? It’s called Richardson’s legacy. And I said, How can we make this community, this single greatest community that this company has ever seen? Like, what can we do what and we literally game plan? We met once a month, and we crushed it, we absolutely crushed it. But it didn’t matter who saw what if the marketing person was walking through a spec home or quick delivery home, and they pointed out that there was something wrong, they can immediately call Jeff and say, Hey, Jeff, I’m in this house. And I see that there’s a broken door hand or not handle, Jeff didn’t go, Oh, why you weren’t? Why are you walking in my house? It was like I got on my list, right. And, you know, Jeff could see customer walk out to the front of the model home and may not be there and walk over and say, Hey, let me get you some brochures, it was 100 represent a team atmosphere. Now I benefited the most financially because I got paid more than marketing. And, you know, sales does, but it was 100% a mutually beneficial relationship. In all of us, we succeed the other we actually won for the state of Maryland that year, we won sales construct the theme of the year. But we when we accepted the reward, we brought the online resources, and we brought other people up and said, Everybody got credit.

Kevin Oakley 1:09:24
It’s amazing. Two things that I love about this story. One is that she did not include the sales manager, because not that the sales manager is going to purposely cause it. But the amount of fear and open sharing the same reason you wouldn’t want to include the construction managers, boss, either. Because if you were emailing his boss saying, hey, this handles missing, you’d be like, Hey, what are you doing, man? Just come tell me. So you’re able to be more open and transparent without fearing about everyone knowing the numbers and conversion ratios. And while that seems inefficient, because we’re going to end up having to have another meeting with a sales manager, and you’re like, why can’t we just get sometimes you have to be inefficient strategically to get things done well, and that’s one thing I want to highlight from that. The other is, I can’t remember to get full credit. But I was listening to Seth Golden’s podcast Kimbo. And he referenced a car dealership where every three months, once a quarter, the service manager and the sales manager switch jobs. And it was an ongoing every three months. So that sales started realizing that when they promise things that service couldn’t deliver on there was real impact. And you were going to have to take that impact personally. So that cross accountability that you’re talking about of Hey, we’re all going to share in this is, is huge, too. So just for sake of time you You crushed me in a salesperson and your time at Russian American, but then you transition to being a full time coach, right? Drop the mantle of salesperson in terms of commission at the door. And now you’re a full time sales coach, owner of a company, when did you realize that that you wanted to do that? Because that’s also something a lot of people don’t dream of growing up as a kid as I do that full time?

Chad Sanschagrin 1:11:01
Yeah, definitely. I definitely think I don’t really fit the the mold of a sale of a trainer, a keynote speaker I’m saying I’m six foot eight 250 pounds, I have a deep New York accent, I don’t enunciate my words, you know, great. So it’s not like you molded for this position. But I was going through Myers Barnes’ training when I first started. And Myers a great guy, great human, great human being, like really good human being. Yeah. And he was

Kevin Oakley 1:11:31
my mentor for the first 10 years in the

Chad Sanschagrin 1:11:32
business. And I didn’t listen, I get to my thought about training but but just a great like, good moral character. Like, that’s what I really connected me with this guy. And then about about a year in, they switched, and the company went away from eyes bonds and went with Jason forest. And so for two years, two years, three years, I’m going through Jason forest training, again, the content, you know, I’ll take a talk a second. But really, I love the idea of this growth mindset of learning new things and figuring out different ways to sell and all that. And so this is the first experience I’ve had in my life with training these three years. I was 38 years old at that point after three years. And I was like, man, I really liked this idea of training. Well, then Jason came to me. And I was working for rich American, he’s like, you know, you should, you should think about becoming a sales trainer. And I was like, I don’t know, you know, probably not my cup of tea. I can’t imagine why somebody would stand on stage and, and listen to the YI to season somebody would like listen and do what I say. And then he kept talking about it. It was like it wasn’t like he was like heavily recruited me, he would just keep planting the seeds, you could probably really do this, you have a great insight for how people buy and sell whatever. And so finally I went I left. I stayed in touch American, but I left before I went to work refugee I went from being a salesperson to sales manager, I took sales management position.

And I

Kevin Oakley 1:12:59
am it only goes one of two ways. Yeah, I terribly are. Yeah, amazingly,

Chad Sanschagrin 1:13:04
I did not care for it. I’m saying that before you said I’d not that I didn’t care for it, I would have been a manager in hotels forever. But I was in meetings, like I was stuck in meetings all day every day. And I’m like, Man, this was what I want to do this.

Kevin Oakley 1:13:20
That’s why I want to I’ll never forget, I don’t want to take any time away from it. But I remember when I realized I needed to not be a market manager, which was someone who had multiple division presidents reporting to them. It’s not that I didn’t like NPR. It’s not that I didn’t like the people that I was working with or any of that. But being in a meeting about the price of drywall was something I never wanted to do again in my entire life. It takes care what it is. Let’s just go sell it anyway.

Chad Sanschagrin 1:13:46
Yeah, it takes a real special person to be able to do that. Again. I think I recently heard this this say I’ve been a teacher, oh my gosh, it just had a heart attack when 14 year old daughters, and they go to school and they pick them up from school on my way Christian school, they get in the car, and they’re asked like, we asked them a million questions. They don’t want to talk. Well think about if you’re an adult, that if you were put into eight one hour meetings, every day, five days a week, eight one hour meetings, and then you get out and your parents like, Hey, what do you like, I think it was death. It was like I was back at school again. And it was painful experience of my life eating all these meetings, I want to be out of the field I want to be meeting with people have a new appreciation for my kids go through because that’s what they do every day, I couldn’t handle it for a year and a half. Like I gotta get I got, I’m getting stir crazy here. So now I was like, wow, I can go back into sales. I can stay a sales manager, which I really was not. I wasn’t nearly as happy as I was because I thought I’d be able to be out in the field, meet with the sales people like really be an impact, having that kind of impact. And then Jason called the right time when I just like had enough. And he said, you know, you can come work for me. And I was like, that’s it. I mean, and I went and work with a nice couple years. And it will Yeah, you know, things happen. You know, the reason like that opportunity was always there. But I wasn’t listened to it. I wasn’t ready. So you only hear things when you’re ready to hear. And so he called it the right time I heard it and I was like I was in and then I worked for him for a couple years. And I really loved it. I really love like having

Kevin Oakley 1:15:22
your having fun when you got in front of people. Yeah,

Chad Sanschagrin 1:15:24
it was it was a whole different and it opened my mind to grow in myself, not just about homebuilding, but about life and about how sales go and about how really, it’s not even about sales anymore. And and then after a couple years, I was there and him and I have a difference of opinion on how KV should be not good or bad. Just different, right? Just different. Yeah. And

Kevin Oakley 1:15:48
he has great con Lucky Charms and cheery and that’s

Chad Sanschagrin 1:15:50
exactly. Both are good. You just have exactly right. And so I said, here’s the thing, listen, you have you have a choice in this world, you’re either going to I could sit and do things the way he wanted, because he his name was on my check, his name was on the book, his name was on the door, or you have the courage to do it your own. And you and I have again have an amazing supportive wife I and I made the decision. almost three years ago, I was like, I’m going to do this on my own. I jumped without having a parachute without having to land this. I’m going to try this on my own. Because I think that I think that training is especially sales trading, is trading in general, is really taken on a whole different meaning as of late over the last couple of years what I’ve seen because there’s so many trainers, so many avenues for to get better, and trying to figure out well, how am I different or what what my beliefs are? is it’s it’s every day is fascinating to me. Can you expand on that a little bit? Just from the marketing side? If we’re not familiar with it, other than like, we see like these people doing? We at hand science, stuff like that.

Andrew Peek 1:17:02
And we’re like, what, what is what are those people doing over there? I’ve no idea campaigns and buttons, buttons to push? What is what is happening? Why do they need these people have just like a quick 30 seconds. On, on what that what that means? Like, why it’s different? And why like how sales training has like evolved into because in my mind training, like there’s like the tactical on the marketing, you know, click this button, click this button.

Chad Sanschagrin 1:17:26
Totally. Yeah, I think this is I think this is it. I think that there’s so much tactical training right now. And every book, every trainer, I think every company has to have their stick, right? Like, I have to have somehow cannibal moments has to have the golden secret that hasn’t been created before in the history, the universe hasn’t been created before. Right? Otherwise, I’m not valuable. So what I do I go into my secret

Kevin Oakley 1:17:52
and artificial intelligence. And

Chad Sanschagrin 1:17:56
like, it’s just it’s insane, right? So think about it. First sale that ever happened. The very first sale ever in the history of the world was when he got out of the bite the apple, right? That was like that was the first sale in the history of sales, right? He’s like, I don’t want it. Yes, we do. Let me tell you why. And I’m going to I just sold you I bite my apple, right? And I’m pretty sure that there was no sales trainer there saying, Let me tell you the three steps to get there get Eve to Adam to bite the apple, right? So selling is always been around my kids. I’ve never been through sales training, but they can sell me on anything really, really fast. But we now because we think that to be valuable, we had to have these secrets of how to sell. And I don’t think that I don’t think there really is one. I think that every sales trainer has something every trainer has something every diet book, The 200,000 books you can buy on Amazon how to lose weight, they all work. They all work for at least the person who wrote the book, right for the person who came up with

Kevin Oakley 1:18:58
it, or whoever is disciplined enough to actually do

Chad Sanschagrin 1:19:01
it right. It was so good. That’s exactly right. It’s going to work. There’s no golden secret to Jeff or to a Myers it’s just a process. My feel my feeling is I don’t have I have the core principles of selling or leadership. But I don’t think that’s where people should focus their time, I think that people should really focus their time on one improving themselves. I think that the greatest sales tool, the greatest instrument you have in this world for your own success is is you is your unique makeup of your, what you God created you to be what you were created to become. I think most people, they end up trying to either consciously or unconsciously take on the persona of somebody else while they’re trying to take on the tactics that are to teach it. Like I have to be Jeff or I have to be a surprise I’d be this person which is so against what I think really successes I think that the reason that I was so successful one is because I really integrated myself into it standing what I was doing, but more so because I never tried to become anybody else like all six foot eight 250 pound, big personality now talk with my hands probably say the wrong stuff. Sometimes. They this was me. And once I learned to be okay with me. And I worked on me. What seemed to happen was people seem to want to do business me I was I was okay with being vulnerable. I was okay with not knowing it all, I was okay with crying when when we gave the keys to a buyer like, this is who I am. And I think that now what I do is we try to there’s a great there’s a line in the movie Patch Adams that said, Pat tabs, his doctor that was trying to you know, change the medical field. And he said, If you treat the patient, you win some you lose some you treat the individual you went every time. And I think that as trainers as what we do, I can’t speak for other people we’re accountable moments, but we do is we really try to focus on the development of the person holistically, everywhere, every part of their life. And while we’re doing that, hey, let’s teach you some things that I used to do in sales are things that I’ve learned, and they may work for you. They may not. But let’s figure them out. And if they work, awesome if they don’t throw it away, and we’ll try something different. But at the same time that that really makes sure you feel good and significant about your impact in this world, and what you’re doing every day.

Kevin Oakley 1:21:26
That makes sense. That makes total sense. And that’s beautiful, how we approach the marketing conversations too, because obviously everyone wants to know, how do I just fix this, or what’s the biggest secret to launch a new community solving this problem. And I keep going back to it’s a Choose Your Own Adventure book. A lot of times it’s and my job as a coach in a mentor is to help you understand the ramifications of whichever page you choose to turn to. But most of the time, neither one of them are completely wrong. They’re just helping them look into the future, a few pages ahead. And so this may be likely where you end up, do you really want to go there? Or now that I’ve told you that maybe do you want to maybe try a different page, a different route? You know, because I agree, I don’t think there are secrets that apply universally. In fact, my friend, Steve Shoemaker, in Oklahoma City, who I’ve worked with for many years, as a friend and with our marketing team, I joke them all the time that almost anything we do that works amazingly, for the rest of the country. It’s not gonna work for Steve, I don’t know what it is every time I’m like, Steve, I don’t even want to tell you this. Because it’s just, it’s just not going to work for you. But it’s working for everyone else.

Chad Sanschagrin 1:22:32
Yeah. Which is crazy. I’m a sales trainer to tell that will tell you that. You don’t need somebody to 100% tactical . I think I know I see it all the time does this mean, this is what I believe, right? It’s so crazy. You can get a sales professional, that has never sold anything in their life, it has high well has a high like just really wants to be involved in somebody’s life, really understand the impact they’re having in this world doesn’t know the difference between two by four and two bucks, right? And they will go out and they will find a way to be successful because they they’re on this mission of really impacting people’s lives. And they’ll they’ll find a way just their own authentic self, their own personality, their curiosity and their desire to want to be involved in somebody’s life make a difference in this world, they’ll be successful, they’ll have some level of success. And then you bring in these trainers, you bring in this education, and you lock them down with tons of education. And all of a sudden, they make this unconscious switch where the same conversation with the customer that would have been all to heart all through pure desire to be a part of somebody’s life, and now has switched to this robotic information dumping. Let me tell you how smart I am. And there’s a disconnection now, because they’ve taken the human element out of it. So I think anything you teach somebody with education with the the tactical education has to be given in a way that is equal part tactical, of education, but equal part delivery of Don’t lose your authentic self keep your own authentic voice like how do you how would you say this in your own words like so if I teach somebody something like, Hey, this is what I believe. But I want you to get me in theory, but and in principle, but I want an application, I want it to come through your mouth and your lips and your words and your through your heart. That’s how that’s the difference not. And I think that’s a really hard thing for people to understand. Because trainers in general, have any ego, you have to have an ego if you’re standing on stage telling people what to do. And it’s hard for them to put the ego on the on the on the ground and say, do this, but man do not do it like I do it. only do it like you do it. And that’s I think that’s why I love it.

Kevin Oakley 1:24:44
I love it. And unfortunately because of time and they were in it. But before I give you the last word, no, no, it’s good, we will certainly have you back because we have a whole other list of questions we keep it off with as you as you’re sharing these knowledge nuggets with us. But tactics, stuff needs to be done in training and in practice. And the goal I think is always to become unconsciously competent, so that you can just be yourself. Because I know everyone always wants to use sports analogies, but it’s because they’re good. You know, when a professional golfer swings, he’s not thinking about and that moment where his elbow is and not right. It’s just you’re solving that in the range that when you get on the on the actual course, that stuff is unconsciously competent, it’s hardwired into your body. And you can do what else you need to do in the moment and be authentic. So I think that is definitely different than other companies out there and a different approach to training that’s going to really resonate with a lot of people, people who are listening. So last kind of wrap up thought here. It’s okay if it takes a little bit of time for you to unwind it. But what do you think are the most common marketing slash sales challenges that you see consistently as a coach out there now with Cannonball when you interact with different companies, industries, any common struggles that are that are seen popping up right now?

Chad Sanschagrin 1:26:04
Yeah, one that I see more than ever, is to break this out into two parts. One is this idea of claiming they’re the best, like it is insane. How many best? There are? Like, how can everybody be the best? Like, like, it’s it’s insane, isn’t it? No, we are the best. We’re the most energy efficient builder in the world. We’re not we are the best for like, here the past like, Oh my gosh, like if you go to New York City, there’s, you know, the best pizzas there are new york city like 7000 best pizzas right? Now there’s only one

Unknown Speaker 1:26:42
Famous Ray’s right, which was that Famous Ray’s down by here or

Kevin Oakley 1:26:42
Famous Rays

The original Famous Ray’s

Chad Sanschagrin 1:26:46
now. Right? So I think that the challenges even if you’re self proclaimed the best, I don’t care, even if you’re if the world describes us, but it’s like if you got homebuilder the year the best, that’s right. I think the challenges is, one, it’s for me, it’s intimidating to a customer. And it’s really unbelievable. It’s when I say it’s humbling, when people don’t see your flaws, they are going to go look for that. Because people don’t want I don’t believe want to be, they don’t want to feel less than I am a flawed individual. I’m a flawed human being. And it makes me feel nervous or less than or shame for whatever word you want to use to describe it. I want to do business with people that are flawed like I am. And so I think that this whole idea of playing chess about what we’re the best at, I think we just need to tone it down a little bit. I don’t think people are looking for the best. I think they’re looking for things that are the most representative of them, like they see themselves in and I don’t know if that’s right or wrong and marketing, but that’s what I see. And for me as a consumer, that drives me crazy.

Kevin Oakley 1:27:58
Well, I know, I think you definitely hit at a truth thing. In terms of museum mining analogy now. But you know, there’s definitely a lot of truth there in that. Does anyone care? like, Okay, great, you’re the best at energy efficiency, but I want granite and the right layout. And so you’re making a real calculated, unintentionally calculated risk for yourself of if you don’t hit that right on the money. It’s not gonna it’s not going to do and what you said just now in terms of even if you win those awards, let the award say that for you. You don’t have to scream it as a marketer necessarily, right? on its own

Chad Sanschagrin 1:28:37
like to me take the mission of the I want if you want to attract people tell me and I’ll go back to you know, Simon cynics, you know, TED talk, but but the idea of, just tell me why you deal with this, like, tell me why you want to sell me a home? Like why is why are you going to be the right home builder for me, and being vulnerable. And that’s my second part. I do this talk with all lot of builders. And it’s only so true to me, like, tell me the quickest way to build trust with any human being like, what’s funny, Kevin, is you said, what really turned me on to get into talking about you chatter on the show? Was you sitting on this tree stump telling me how you didn’t get into IBS? Right? It’s complete vulnerability. I put my biggest weakness out there and said, This is who I am. And I’m okay with it. And I got more feedback from that. And I’m not looking for instance, your empathy I’m not looking for, right. I’m just saying, I don’t have a college degree I used to, I would never tell people I don’t have a college I come up with excuses alibis of reasons of well, though, I’d say where do you go to school? And I would say, Oh, I went and Marilyn No, I’m talking about I went to school in high school, right? Because I was so embarrassed to tell people to go to school. But I realized that when I was willing to own my own, what I perceived cracks, my armor attracted so many more people to me. So it doesn’t mean like your marketing should be Hey, listen, we have really crappy backyard. So that’s not what I’m saying. But what I am saying is that you figure out what is the mission you’re on to I said this on the KV podcast, too many people are too focused on creating crafting the perfect mission statement, but they’re not actually on a mission, like figure out what mission you on, and publicize that to the world. And people automatically gravitate towards you. Because they’re on the same mission, you’re on things and that’s what you want. You want to do business with people that are on the same mission you are. And if they’re not, that’s okay to let us help you find the mission you’re meant to be on. Like To me that is I just want to keep going.

Kevin Oakley 1:30:48
Because you know, you just because as a coach and as a mentor, you have to have the person you are coaching, feel vulnerable enough to express their weaknesses, so you can help and if you’re not approachable, because you’re sharing your own weaknesses, too. It often does not get you where you want to go as fast. Okay, the lifeguard is blowing the whistle. We gotta get out of the deep end of the pool. Yeah. Thanks again, Chad for for joining us. We’ll have you on again for sure. Thanks. I appreciate it was it was a blast is amazing.

Chad Sanschagrin 1:31:17
This is a countable moment for me like I get to be on this show. You know, this is this is big stuff. This is bigger than IBS. Get on this show getting up. Hallmark moment right here. This is awesome. All right. Well,

Kevin Oakley 1:31:31
thanks again. We’ll talk again soon.

Andrew Peek 1:31:49
Alright, we’re back. That was amazing. Thank you, Chad. So here we go. Let’s do the question the week from last week. And let me pull this up here. This was a fun one. And I was really interested to see the results be because it’s, I don’t know. But we’ll see. Let’s see what they are. So the question was, how do you measure foot traffic in your model homes and sale centers? Right, and I got the totals here. And 41% voted CRM. That’s not 41 to 46%, excuse me, CRM, hey, that’s interesting. Paper registration cards, 31%, spreadsheet, 12% CRM plus door swing, so it must interact. And market in there. 4%. iPad is two and a half percent. And then a other digital tool is right at 2%. So the the CRM answer is interesting, because that’s good. Is it good? I guess it goes a little bit of room for interpretation. But that must be what lands actually is in this in the CRM. So there could be a step before that. I’m

Jackie Askews 1:32:51
just going to say maybe there is paper registration cards that then gets converted over to the CRM. Be curious if they enter that data in sometimes just count that right off the bat. Yeah,

Andrew Peek 1:33:02
it’s either that or like, if someone is visiting the model like, hey, let’s take a look around. And then if they sit down, and then they’re able to, and I’m surprised that iPad was so low. Yeah, I do know we’ve still secret we’ve been working on just creating really simple landing pages to help with that. As far as like having registration tool, like a iPad, right over here on the corner, whatever when they walk in, you could kind of self register.

Jackie Askews 1:33:28
That’s interesting. Oh, that’s nice. Cool. I’m sure that number will grow in the next year. So

Andrew Peek 1:33:35
it will grow. And there’s one comment by Renee says we are excited to be testing the online registration at one of our communities. That’s probably referencing what I just talked about. Getting that setup. So super cool. Alright, and the next question of the week. So the new one this is I think it’s a fun one because it is summer. I feel like in Florida, we start summer before the rest of the world. Because it’s always so warm, something like and it’s been somewhere for like four months, even though it’s only only July. But the question will be historically, what is your worst summer month for sales and traffic? So should be some good discussion. I’m hoping everyone says June and though it’s already here, right? That’s right. That’s right. All right. Well, that will do it. For publish articles, blog post videos, and more, check out DoYouConvert com. It’s also the best way to find out how to connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and anywhere else. We are Twitter as well. Yeah, follow us there. Yes. That’s it.

Jackie Askews 1:34:30
See ya. Right. Bye, everyone.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

The post Ep 59: Swimming in the Deep End with Chad Sanschagrin [TRANSCRIPT] appeared first on Online Sales and Marketing for Home Builders - DYC.