👟 Kicking Off with the Lyon Life: Mike Lyon is deep into basketball dad life, supporting his son Nate on the Puma Pro 16 circuit—beating Nike teams and getting college looks. Jen’s hoping to see Nate at Old Dominion someday!
🏫 Upcoming Events & Opportunities
• Online Sales Academy – Kicks off May 20th with three half-days + eight weeks of on-demand training. Not everyone graduates—but if you do, you earn official certification!
• Online Sales & Marketing Summit – Back in Chicago this year with an epic speaker lineup:
o Rhonda Conger
o Steve Shoemaker
o Ryan Taft
o Brian Boero
…and more DYC pros!
💡 Pro Tip from Mike: If you want to attend, ask your boss. Plead your case. Or invest in yourself.
Welcome to the newest DYC superstars:
• Melissa Fort – 20 years in new home sales, former TriPointe Homes.
• Molly Adams – OSC and HubSpot wizard, full of real-world experience and energy.
💥 Tito (Top Industry Talent OSC) Shoutout
🔍 Main Topic: When Leads Are Down, Here's What to Do
• Always start with fresh lead follow-up and appointment details.
• Then tackle prospecting: older leads are converting more than new ones!
o Q4 saw up to 24% of appointments from aged leads.
o Dedicate 2+ hours a day to prospecting.
o Expect 40–60 calls per appointment in today’s market.
"You want us to stop talking about prospecting? Start prospecting." – Mike Lyon
2. Shift to Lead-Generating Activities
• Clean up your website (“It’s your model home!”).
• Review third-party listing accuracy.
• Make sure forms and lead routing are working.
• Partner with marketing to fill gaps.
• Bonus: become the brand face on video—walk homes, introduce communities, highlight updates.
3. Champion the CRM
• Offer fun CRM tips in sales meetings.
• Help sales teams use it well (without becoming the “CRM Police”).
• Good CRM = good data for future AI support.
4. Embrace AI, Now
• Use ChatGPT to summarize calls.
• HubSpot’s CoPilot can auto-summarize leads.
• Invest time in learning—this will soon be a required skill.
"If you don’t start working with AI, you’ll be working for AI." – Uncle Mike
5. Don’t Overcommit
Avoid taking on tasks you can’t drop when lead volume spikes again. Be proactive, but be smart about your bandwidth.
6. Tell the Story Behind the Numbers
• Don’t just report stats—explain them.
• Analyze conversion by community, by lead source.
• Help sales and leadership understand what’s really going on.
🧠 Skills Check
✅ Pick one area (prospecting, content, CRM, AI, etc.) and commit to growing it.
✅ Talk to leadership about how you’ll lean in.
✅ Bonus: Subscribe, rate, and review the podcast!
🎧 Thanks for tuning in!
📩 Questions? Email: show@doyouconvert.com
🔗 More at doyouconvert.com
Full transcript:
OPT_Episode 36
Jen Barkan: Mike? Yes. You are in your basketball travel era right now. Oh, what have you been up to?
Mike Lyon: That is correct. You know, we have a rule over at do you convert that you're not supposed to, um, really have a side hustle.
Jen Barkan: You're breaking the
Mike Lyon: rules, but I'm breaking the rule 'cause this feels like a fricking part-time job.
But man, you know, little Nate Dogg, he's been. He's been grinding all year, and so now it's summer basketball. He plays on the Puma Pro 16 circuit and he's just, their, their, their team is doing great. They're dominating, they're seven to, oh, and they beat a Nike EYBL team. He's on the Puma Pro 16 circuit shoe circuit, and they beat a Nike EYBL team in their state.
And Nate was. Jacked. Absolutely jacked. So it was, it was a fun weekend. He was hugging Corey, hugging me. He never hugs us. He doesn't, he's like, shows no emotion. 'cause that's not cool.
Jen Barkan: Is he 16, soon to be 17?
Mike Lyon: He is 16, yeah. And he is turning 17. That's correct. And so now it's, this is this summer. I think it's in June.
I can't remember the date. The June. June is when coaches start talking to the kids.
Jen Barkan: Okay. When
Mike Lyon: you're of your sophomore year. So he's already got some. College stuff set up and Yeah, he's, he's, yeah, he's working. It,
Jen Barkan: it's fun. Well, as a long time Nate Dog supporter, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm putting this out into the universe that Nate is going to come play at Old Dominion University and be a monarch.
Okay. He one school, he can, yeah, he can live here. He can go to school. You're a low major,
Mike Lyon: right?
Jen Barkan: Yeah, whatever. I don't know. I know they're, I know. Listen, I know they're, they're D one, they have a a, they're in a rebuild mode, so by the time he's ready to come over, I.
Mike Lyon: Hook it up. Set up the visit Jen, Jen Barkin, his agent.
Go ahead and set that visit up and we'll make it happen.
Jen Barkan: I'm on it. I'm on it. All right. All right. Let's do this thing. My name is Jen Barkin, online sales coach at Do You Convert and welcome to Online People Talking. This is the. Only podcast that is dedicated to enhancing the careers and lives of the new home online sales specialists.
We'll talk about real life challenges, stories, and solutions just for you.
Welcome to episode 36. Whoa. Today we have a special guest, the one and only Mike Lyon. Hey, welcome back to the Pod Mike. Hey, that was, Hey. I was like, Hey Mike, are you, are you ready to, to do this with me this morning? He's like, I was born ready. That's right. We could, we could. This is just like old times.
I'm so excited that you're here on online, people talking and um, one of the first things, let's do some housekeeping. We have a couple of awesome events coming up. One, we have our next online sales academy that you are gonna be hosting alongside me. It's gonna be like olden times.
Mike Lyon: That's
Jen Barkan: right. Um, do you remember when we did our first online sales academy?
What year that was? Right?
Mike Lyon: Right before COVID 2018. No, no, no. That's right. You're right. The last one we did was before last live one we did was before Covid.
Jen Barkan: Yes.
Mike Lyon: 2018 was the first one we did at London House in Chicago. And that was a blast.
Jen Barkan: Oh man. Except I made the mistake of having shrimp ordered for lunch.
And you were like, PS Jen, I don't eat shrimp,
Mike Lyon: nor should anyone for lunch. Let's just be clear.
Jen Barkan: I was like, Jed, you handle the food. And um, I'm like, great. I'll have like shrimp cocktail. I'm like, what the heck? Um, anyway, all kidding aside, our next academy is May 20th. Yes. And if you are looking for some structured training, maybe, maybe you're newer to the role or you've been in the role for quite some time.
I've never had any real structured, fundamental training. This is definitely the academy for you. Real quick, we kick it off for three days, uh, three virtual half days together, and then we stay with you for eight weeks through on demand and virtual training. And at the end of it, you graduate as long as you do all your things.
Some people don't. Some people don't and
Mike Lyon: they don't get a certificate. Not
Jen Barkan: everybody graduates. I know. Fun facts. What, what is the percentage? Like 10% don't graduate maybe. Yeah, I'd say 10%. Yeah.
Mike Lyon: Losers.
Jen Barkan: Yeah. I mean, it, it's a pretty big deal. You get an official certification. Yeah. It's hard too. Yeah. It's hard.
It's hard. But you know what, like you, you
Mike Lyon: don't get, you don't get credit just for showing up. Like you gotta take a 10 page sale readiness, you gotta do stuff, quiz, you gotta do stuff. Yeah. You gotta do everything. You gotta do stuff.
Jen Barkan: So we have a couple of spots remaining on that, so definitely go to the website and check that out if you're interested.
We also, Mike, have our Summit Online Sales and Marketing Summit coming up. And when you hear this recording, tickets to the general public are gonna be live and available.
Mike Lyon: Heck yeah. Mike,
Jen Barkan: where are we gonna be? And talk a little bit about the speakers we have lined up. I'm excited.
Mike Lyon: Okay. I will. Well, we're going by popular.
Demand, you know, the, the crowd has spoken. We're going back to Chicago and the hotel is great and it's a fun spot and everybody absolutely loved it last year. So we're going back. Uh, I'm excited about that. Always when we can get a good spot and have good food and, you know, do fun things. So we're going back to Chicago.
We've got a phenomenal speaker lineup. That we're just getting started with Rhonda Conger. Again, fan favorite. Mm. Um, Steve Shoemaker from Ideal Homes, who, he was speaking at the Builder Show, and I hadn't, I haven't seen him speak in forever. I'm like, I forgot how great he was. He fun. And, and I asked him, I was like, would you want to do this?
And he goes, yeah, I've never been to this summit. To the summit. I'm like, what?
Jen Barkan: Wait
Mike Lyon: fun. I mean, I've known Steve for like 14 years or whatever. Wait, wait. What? He's never been to Summit? Never been to the summit. The
Jen Barkan: summit.
Mike Lyon: No. 'cause every time he's like, should I come? And we're like, no. Like send your people, don't, you don't need to come.
Oh,
Jen Barkan: okay.
Mike Lyon: Um, I think he felt a little upset about that. I don't know what to talk about that later. Who else? Ryan Taft is gonna be speaking. That's gonna be awesome. Um, Brian Boero from Thousand Watt, who's plugged into the real real estate general brokerage landscape. And he's gonna drop some nod bombs on like all the.
Craziness that's happening over in the realtor world and how we can connect with them just to name a few. I mean, there's more coming, but those are our kind of ones we've got lined up here. Plus obviously all over the DYC team. So, no, we are super excited about it this year. It's gonna, it's gonna be big, it's gonna be awesome.
And, and here's the deal, Jen. I mean, a lot of times people hear this and they go, man, I would love to go. Yeah. But I just don't know if I can. And, and when they say that to me. I always go, have you asked? And they're like, no. And I was like, okay. Step one, ask yes and plead your case. That's the first thing.
Plead your case. Hey, this is a great training op. Like it's the only, it is the largest gathering of online sales specialist in the known universe. You gotta be there. And second, like, if they're like, ah, maybe I will say, Hey, if I, you know, will you, I'll pay my travel if you pay for my ticket. Right. You know what they say to that?
Like, if they're like, eh, we don't know if we can mm-hmm. Invest in yourself. Like, I used to go to, to conferences all the time. I never, my builder never paid for it. I paid for it. Right. It was my, I dedicated a certain amount of my paycheck to continuing education, and that's what helped propel me quicker.
In my professional career, just career just in FYI, if anybody's asking. So
Jen Barkan: yeah, I love that so much. And you're absolutely right. It's the biggest party for online sales, uh, to exist. I remember I felt like that the first year that you had the summit and I went as an attendee and I remember just looking around and feeling like, okay, these are my people.
Mike Lyon: That's right.
Jen Barkan: And just being able to talk and, and we hear that all the time from attendees that go, you guys are awesome. I love learning from you, but. I get so much out of just talking with the people around me and hearing what they're doing and what
Mike Lyon: they're struggling. Yeah. So, so don't miss out. And speaking of people around, you weren't one of those people at the very first summit.
Now, um, joining. Oh, man, that the, do you converts? Look at that transition right there, Jen. That's nice
Jen Barkan: segue. Oh, man, segue. That's a seg. Nice segue, Mike. Yes. We have two new superstars joining our team, who you guys are gonna meet and be hearing from very soon. Um, the first that Mike is referring to is Melissa Fort.
She is, she has almost 20 years of experience. In the new home industry. She's coming to us from TriPoint Homes and she is gonna be online sales coaching alongside of us. We are so excited. And then we have an online sales specialist superstar, Molly Adams, who is fresh off the seat of online sales. She is a HubSpot.
Guru, she is, you know, coming, I mean she has so many stories already, like I'm just hearing this and I'm just transported back in time to when I was in the seat. And she's gonna bring so much flavor and color and, uh, excitement to our team. So you guys are gonna be meeting them very soon. We'll have 'em on the pod.
So stay tuned. We'll be doing so many great things
Mike Lyon: happening. Yes, she had to remind me. Um. Melissa did. 'cause I had, for, I, I had for, it's been probably golly, 14 years or something. Mm-hmm. Since I first started working on, she's like, you remember you interviewed me for a, when I went to work for Ashton Woods, and I was like, oh my gosh, I forgot.
Oh. Because we worked with one division of Ashton Woods first, and then we worked with corporate and I just. In my brain. I was like, oh, she's always been there. Nope. Uh, she was coming from somewhere else and I was like, oh yeah, I remember that. It's great. So I know.
Jen Barkan: Too bad we can't find that, uh, interview.
No, actually, you know what? I think she said she still has like the email or something that Oh, I bet she does. Yeah. That's awesome that she's a true online sales specialist. Saving it, it all, save it, it all
Mike Lyon: CYA. Yeah. Save all those emails.
Jen Barkan: Last, last housekeeping update is our Tito. Shout out this. Episode, which Tito is top industry, talented.
OSC. This Tito goes to Carla Minna of Empire Communities. Guys, this, this just stood out to me, uh, Mike, because we were talking about video email. She reached out to me unsolicited and she goes, I've been working on this. I've been coming outta my comfort zone doing more video, email. Would you critique this and give me some feedback?
I. She sent it to me and I just thought afterwards, you know, I gave her the feedback and I just thought, what a pro, like it takes a lot to be vulnerable and coachable and to just send that unsolicited, like, Hey, can you look at this and tell me what I'm doing good and what I'm doing, what I could work on?
So, good job, Carla, shout out to you.
Mike Lyon: What, what was the critique?
Jen Barkan: The critique was that she needed to be more animated.
Mike Lyon: Oh, yes. She looked a little
Jen Barkan: bit like hostage video situation. That's
Mike Lyon: the, Hey, been there, done that.
Jen Barkan: Yeah, I know that's your specialty. My, that's not but scared videos. I told her to smile more, be more animated.
Use your hands and then ultimately just do more, you know, the more, yeah. Totally comfortable. The more you do, the more comfortable you're gonna get. And remember authentic, over perfect. Like just. One. One, you know, one and done. Send it, do it. Send it, and uh, be done.
Mike Lyon: You know, it's funny, Jen, going back in time to when we used to do these Facebook Lives.
Yeah. I remember like just feeling more adrenaline and everything on a Facebook Live.
Jen Barkan: Mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: Thinking like, oh my gosh. This just has to be, and and even doing those, like, and, and we were comfortable with video, obviously. Yeah. But then doing a live, it's different. So I remember that feeling of just kind of getting worked up and then even when we were done, just like, oh my gosh, okay, how did it go?
Okay. Right. Let me watch it again. Right. And now I'm like, whatever. Whatever. Did I curse? I don't think I cursed any time. Yeah, we don't have to be just kidding.
Jen Barkan: No. Jen's the one with the foul mouth. I know I do. But listen, I that you know why Mike? Because, and I can remember you were way more amped up about it than I was, I think because I am the queen of like, just let it rip.
Do it. Let a rip, let it rip wing it, you know, whatever. Um, you know, but listen, you do have to have a little preparation of, okay, like, what am I gonna talk about? What am I gonna say? Um, but anyway, just do it guys. Just get out there and do
Mike Lyon: it. Yeah, just do it. Speaking of preparation, Jen, uh, let's go to the show now.
Do you have another
Jen Barkan: segue
Mike Lyon: to the
Jen Barkan: notes? Um, okay. Mike, what are online people talking about? What have you, you know, as, oh yes, you've kind of been doing some coaching calls recently. What are you hearing? Right
Mike Lyon: now? Well, two things. One, you know, on our, on our quarterly business reviews is what we call them with, you know, the leadership team.
We get all hands on deck. Everybody's kind of asking that question, how's it looking out there? Right? This is what we're doing. We've hit our goals. Barely, we're not hitting our goals, we missed our goal. So there's some market turbulence that's happening. So that's kind of the, we call it the macro economic big picture, right?
You got, uh, you know, our dear leader in the White House doing some craziness with tariffs. Um, and so that is gonna trickle down mm-hmm. And affect consumer confidence and affect the bond markets, which affects, you know, right. Everything else and affects mortgage rates and how much we pay for wood from Canada.
So all that stuff is getting a little bit crazy. And so you, you kind of feel the urgency just like sucked out of the marketplace. Yeah. And that can result in either a lower lead volume or just leads that aren't as excited as they were before. Mm-hmm. Too. Move forward in this process. So that's what we're hearing.
Like big picture wise, you zoom into online sales, which has been exciting since Jesse has left. I've taken over her clients and usually I'm working with teams, not individuals, but now I get to work with individuals and I've had a lot of great conversations, just like the old days of coaching one-on-one with online sales specialists and they're like, Hey, our leads are down.
You know, what do we do? What's going on? What should I do next? Help me OB one Kenobi.
Jen Barkan: Mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: Yeah. You know, and, and that's what they're talking about right now. And so
Jen Barkan: mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: We've got some very specific recommendations for all our online sales specialists to make sure we keep that momentum and
Jen Barkan: mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: And energy and everything moving. Yeah. We can control that energy. It's either inbound or it's outbound. Mm-hmm. We can control it. So that's what we're talking about.
Jen Barkan: Yeah. And so you recently wrote a blog about this. You know, you were, I was looking at your blog and you start out by saying like, you were just on some calls.
And that's what people are saying, like, Hey, I finished with my leads, now what do I do right now? What else do I have? So, definitely, you know, we'll put the links in the show notes, but definitely head over to the website and check out this blog. But we're gonna talk about some key points, Mike. So let's go through these, like what's one of the first things that you need to think about?
Leads are down. What do you focus on? Hit it. What's the first thing?
Mike Lyon: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and even just the, the, I guess let's frame it up to get, get a framework for you. Like how do we create value? Yeah. When lead volume dips. Because if, if you only assign your value to working leads, you're missing about half of, half of the opportunity.
No matter if you're only getting 80 leads a month, or if you're getting 250 leads a month, right? There's a lot of value that an online sales specialist creates in the role. So I just wanna first say that like you guys are, are huge. I, I was talking with the team yesterday and they were, you know, kind of complaining about not getting airtime at sales meetings or, um, attention from sales leaders.
And I, and I, I go back to my statement that I always say, it's like, stop treating the online sales team that they're only. You know, responsible for 5% of sales, right? Like there, if you're doing a good job, you're gonna be help contributing and helping facilitate 50% of your sales.
Jen Barkan: Mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: But there's other things that you can do to create value beyond the metrics.
And so that's what we talked about. So first of all, it's twofold. If lead volume dips in, if we're down. Okay, then we've got a little bit more time in our day and or we don't manage a large lead volume to begin with. And my large lead volume, I mean, if you're sub one 50, you're gonna have half of your day right?
To do other things. So that's, that's really how we wanna frame up the conversation. So obviously we focus on those lead converting activities first. That is your number one priority. Nothing else in the world happens until your new leads are processed, until you've gone through your follow up. So you've paid attention to the details on your appointments.
Mm-hmm. You're checking in, you're doing the handoff, and then you move right on to the other most important but hardest lead converting activity, which is prospecting.
Jen Barkan: Yeah. I was gonna say, right? Yeah. Prospecting primary responsibility like that. Absolutely. So, yeah, we're doing prospecting. Keep going.
Mike Lyon: Pro.
Well talk. Why don't you talk about prospecting a little bit, because
Jen Barkan: Yeah.
Mike Lyon: This is something we absolutely hammer into. Mm-hmm. Our, yeah. Our team's heads like, you, you gotta be doing this and it ain't easy. Yeah. Well, especially in this market,
Jen Barkan: everybody's sick of us talking about prospecting, but here's, you know, before we were like, prospecting is important, but now we have the data to back up why prospecting is so important.
Mm-hmm. So I just wanna talk about the proof, you know, is in the pudding. We started really tracking this last year, and what we started to see was that the contribution of, um, aged appointments to total appointments is growing. So, you know, it used to be like, okay, if you were, if 10% of your appointments were coming from older leads, okay, like your prospecting efforts were working.
As the market has shifted and online sales has doubled down on those efforts, we're seeing 15%, 19%, 24% in Q4 of last year. And so we're getting ready to see what our Q1 numbers are. Amanda's working on those right now, but what we're seeing is that those older leads in the database, they've been sitting and waiting and watching compared to the newer leads that are coming in that are maybe a little bit more hesitant.
Like they're, they're just starting out sniffing around. The older leads are, are ready. And so online sales, if you're really doing those prospecting efforts, you're gonna see those older leads start to convert, and the older leads are actually going to sale sooner than the new leads. The new leads we're seeing, you know, the appointment to, um, sale cycle be longer, right?
Because they're, they're taking more time, they're thinking about it. There's some uncertainty. So again, like why do this? Because there is opportunity in your database, and so really designating two hours, minimum a day minimum, you know, if you, if you have the bandwidth to do it, two hours of focused work on.
Segmenting list, calling, text, you know, emailing, like following up with people. And I was talking with somebody yesterday and I was like, you gotta get real aggressive with your follow up. Like you've gotta be not just emailing, you've gotta be calling, um, if they've opted into texting, you've gotta be texting.
Like you've gotta be figuring out how to reach them. And again, if you get a no, that's okay. Like at least you can clean up your database. Or, Hey, I've, I've moved to Alaska. Great. Clean up your database so that you continue to have a really focused list of people that you're actually working.
Mike Lyon: I like it. So, yeah.
Well, and, and the, I. We've heard and what we've told you for ages, and we probably should update it in our materials. Right. But 20 calls equals one appointment.
Jen Barkan: Yeah.
Mike Lyon: And now in this marketplace it's between 40 and 60.
Jen Barkan: Yeah, I was gonna say
Mike Lyon: 50. So don't, so don't get discouraged. Like a lot of people get discouraged, like, don't get discouraged.
That's fine. And there's a lot of things that happen. That will benefit the database as you go through that list hygiene. And the final thing I would say on prospecting, we'll move on, is you want us to stop talking about prospecting, then start prospecting. Like we'll stop talking about it. Yeah. Once you do it, does that mean amen?
Jen Barkan: I
Mike Lyon: don't
Jen Barkan: know. No, that's good. Just do
Mike Lyon: it. That's our theme. Just do it. That's our theme. I did buy Nike stock. Uh, Nike stock was like cut in half.
Jen Barkan: Ooh. I went and bought
Mike Lyon: some. Speaking of just doing it, I do not recommend buying stocks. That's a dumb thing to do. All right. All right. What's the
Jen Barkan: next thing, Mike?
That,
Mike Lyon: that, um, you know, once we, how
Jen Barkan: do we bring value?
Mike Lyon: Yeah. We've exhausted those lead converting activities. Now you move on to lead generating activities. Mm-hmm. And now this is the one that gets a little bit tricky. Um, things that are not lead generating activities. Um. You know, getting the travel set up for your company on a business trip.
Uh, ordering lunches for everybody. Yeah. Don't wait, don't do these, don't do those things. Those are things not, those are not lead generate, lead therapy setting. Setting up colonoscopy
Jen Barkan: appointments. I mean, scheduling not a good idea. Yeah.
Mike Lyon: No, do not schedule colonoscopy appointments for anyone. That's a little inside joke.
You can ask Jen about that. Just ping her. Ping her and ask. Um. But things that can't matter, like your website is your model home. Okay. Yeah. So make sure it's nice and tidy and up to date. Focus on content.
Jen Barkan: Mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: Make sure that that's looking good. And you like what, you know, you, if you're a customer and you're looking at your website, you like what you see.
Mm-hmm. And you coordinate and work with the marketing team to support them. Now with chat, GPT, there's just so many things that we can do to expand and, and build some content that. Can fill out our website.
Jen Barkan: Mm-hmm. Make
Mike Lyon: sure you're evaluating all your listings. Are, are they Look good. I, I say this with a little bit of prejudice.
If you need to help with MLS temporarily, that's something that you could do if it's not being done well.
Jen Barkan: Mm-hmm. You can
Mike Lyon: analyze all of your third party listing sites and make sure things are working correctly. You can make sure lead forms are working correctly and for some people who've got that little.
Pep in their step and you know, that little bit of spark you can get in front of the camera and start shooting some stuff. Right? Yeah. And we'll talk more about that here in just a second. But there's a lot of different things that you can do to support lead generating activities.
Jen Barkan: Mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: Um, that you could be responsible for it.
Your job is not to do brochures for the team or, um, do rinky-dink stuff that's not within your, yeah. Your scope, but there's a lot of things that are within your scope that you could do temporarily even thinking about the coming soon process and things like that. Yeah. So what do you think, Jen?
Jen Barkan: That Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
Like what I wrote down is, you know, really partner with marketing. You know, like go to leadership, go to marketing and be like, look, you know, how can I plug in here? I know that was something that I did when I was an online sales specialist and really, um. Became kind of the, the brand or the face of the builder, which is kind of your next point is, you know, double down on content and video and like get out on site and do some things.
So talk a little bit about what you were thinking there.
Mike Lyon: First, let's go back to what Jen was really trying to do. She was using her job as a way to go get dogs adopted, parading dogs on video, but I bet those videos got a lot of engagement. Oh
Jen Barkan: man. Oh man. That was so awesome. Yeah. You know, the, the Ask Jen Live is what it was called, and featuring a new home community every week with a dog that needed a home.
Brilliant. Right.
Mike Lyon: Slap a puppy on that video that's gonna get all the love. Um, but yeah, becoming the face of a builder, the brand ambassador, uh, you already have your should have your face on those, on those calls to action on your website. And so why is that so important? Well, psychologically, customers are more likely to engage and give good information if they feel like they're interacting with a person, not a form or a person and not a bot.
And so now we can easily with just a little bit of equipment, you know, basically a, a Bluetooth microphone on your, on, on your shirt and a and an iPhone. You can go out there and shoot. Awesome, awesome content. I was just talking about this with someone the other day, about getting out in the video and helping, um, either in front of the camera or behind the camera.
Uh, the sales reps do their handoff videos.
Jen Barkan: Yeah.
Mike Lyon: Right. That's so mm-hmm. Fe featuring some homes doing a tour.
Jen Barkan: Yeah. If
Mike Lyon: it's kind of hard to get to a model home showing someone how to get to a model home.
Jen Barkan: Mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: Um, if we're doing some fun update on coming soon, put that hard hat on and go out there and talk about stuff in front of a
Jen Barkan: mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: Pile of dirt. You're just getting your face out there and getting people comfortable so that you have content to share. You're on the website in Evergreen content, you're helping promote things. It's pretty easy to do. And again, you gotta get over past your, your discomfort. Um, but that's easy. It takes about 17 videos to do it.
Jen Barkan: Yeah. Two things I wanna add to that. One, as you're creating this content, be thinking about how you can use this in multiple places. You know, you can use it in prospecting emails that you're sending out. Marketing can be using it so it, you know, create your content library. Um, it's really powerful when you're talking with a customer and you're like, oh, I was just out there.
Let me send you this video that I took, you know, walking through this particular home or the model or whatever, like super powerful to be able to do that. The second thing is kind of this like domino effect or side effect that happens when you get out on site and you are doing some of this stuff with your sales exec.
It really creates a great, um, teamwork and comradery with them, right? And they think like, wow, like. You're out here like doing this for my community, and you could be like, yeah, I'm gonna send this to my 500, you know, prospects in my database that have expressed interest in this and try to get you some more appointments.
They are going to love you.
Mike Lyon: Yes.
Jen Barkan: So, you know, start with the communities that maybe you are. Like, I know a lot about it, but I could know more. Get out there, learn more about the community. Bridge the gap with your salesperson. So I love that. Okay. What else can we be doing?
Mike Lyon: Well, 100, literally 100% of builders that we partner with need CRM training support.
Yeah. They gotta have that support. Um, primarily the sales teams. Mm-hmm. Even the sales leaders. Bless our leaders. Like they, sometimes they don't remember even how to log in, right? Um, so online sale, this is an easy button for you guys. Mm-hmm. To have a fun little, you know, five minute CRM. Here's a highlight.
Here's a magic trick. This is something cool that you can do. Um, you can tag team, award it when people are using the CM and updating notes and, yeah. And changing ratings and doing their follow up the right way. There's so many things that you can do, but you can champion the CRM. Mm-hmm. Now, being a champion of the C RM doesn't mean being the CRM police, you know?
Yeah. Avoid that at all costs, but be that one who can every sales meeting, do a quick little update on how you can use it. New people coming in, maybe they need some help learning how to use it because the better that the sales team uses the CRM, the better it is for you.
Jen Barkan: Absolutely. I love that. I. Um, yeah.
Don't, don't take away that comradery that you created by being the, uh, accountability police of the CRM that just creates friction. So be the resource
Mike Lyon: that that is. That's very true. And, and I've seen it before because
Jen Barkan: mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: Some of our precious online sales specialists are just OCD. Yeah. And like a weird like about, and they're like, what's wrong with these salespeople?
Yeah. And I'm like. Stop trying to get a chair to be a table, like they're just a chair. Help 'em Right. Help 'em understand why it's important to them and, and one of the biggest things that putting good notes into CRM and, and making sure your emails are connected and going through the cm, making sure they're actually using it the right way
Jen Barkan: mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: Is for the future and, and how. This layer of AI over this is gonna help, if there's not good notes and information in the CRM, the AI is not gonna be able to do stuff with it. And so even helping them, you know, do some things like that. So that takes us to our next level.
Jen Barkan: Yeah, I was gonna say, speaking of ai, speaking of ai, so there is so much to, you know, continue to learn.
Right. And how online sales can leverage this. You know, if you have the time, lean into it and learn. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Strike.
Mike Lyon: Strike that. Um, edit, right? If you have the time. No, no, ma'am.
Jen Barkan: No. Yes, yes. No. You let, let, lemme just, you're making the time.
Mike Lyon: You're making. Here comes Uncle Mike. Uncle Mike here.
Wait. Uncle Mike's coming. Uh oh. Uh oh. Brace yourself. Brace yourself for Uncle Mike. Um. Listen there, you don't, if you have, you do it in your off hours, I don't care. Because if you don't start working with ai, you will be working for ai. Like that's the reality. This is the same. This is exactly what's happening on technology standpoint.
AI is technology, but what we used to say is like technology's not gonna replace, you know, a sales person or an online sales person, but. The online salesperson who leverages technology will replace the one who doesn't. Right? Okay. Just remove technology and put AI in there. There are so many opportunities here to do your job better, faster, stronger than you ever have before, but you've gotta sit down and, and use it from creative writing idea generation.
Um, this is one that, uh, an online sales specialist showed me their day, I thought was super cool. Taking the transcriptions from
Jen Barkan: mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: CallRail, CallRail. Plugging it into chat GPT with the five areas of qualification and say, summarize this call with the five areas of qualification. Ooh, nice. It combine it took a 10 minute call and just boiler plated it down and he dropped it into his CRM.
You know, those are the types of little tricks that we can do. And it goes beyond just creating a doll of yourself that I've seen everybody posting, you know, these little dolls. Um, or changing up. There's so many things that you can do. Um, it will only grow as a support tool for an online sales specialist.
Jen Barkan: Mm-hmm.
Mike Lyon: So, I, I'm really big on embracing and learning ai. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, $20 a month gets you a paid chat GPT account that does more things. Um, leveraging tools like perplexity. Obviously Grammarly is technically ai. Uh, if you got HubSpot, AI is built in, it's called. Co-Pilot Breeze co-pilot, change the name every day, but it's the co-pilot.
You a one click button and you can summarize a lead and show that magic trip to your sales reps. There's so many things that can happen. I just really want to encourage everybody that is going to be a requirement of this role, uh, in the not too distant future.
Jen Barkan: Mm-hmm. I love that. All of these things that we're talking about.
Add so much value, like you said, beyond just managing leads. Right? They're that right. They're just bringing the, this next level right to your role. Having said that, this last point that you made about, you know, crucial, don't overcommit to tasks that can't be taken off your plate in the future. If the market shifts, if lead volume when, when the market shifts,
Mike Lyon: when, when the market shifts back and gets busy, right?
You can't be, you can't say I'm the events manager. Right. Or I'm working in, uh, as a sales, you know, co or you know, contract coordinator. Mm-hmm. Like, you can't take on a job that you can't hand off to someone else. Right. Or pause. Right. So that, that is huge. I mean, a lot of people do. It's like, well, I guess I'll just be in charge of coming soon events, you know, in the presale without fail.
Well, that is a lot of things in there. What happens if it gets busy and you're in charge of that too? Mm-hmm. Now you're trying to do two jobs.
Right.
Mike Lyon: That ain't gonna work. So Yeah. Don't overcommit the tasks you cannot drop within, you know, a week's notice. Yeah.
Jen Barkan: Yeah. And just make sure you're communicating that with leadership.
You know, when you're asked to do something or when you go say you wanna do something and just make sure they understand. Um, the areas of responsibility that you're working on and how long things take to do. I wanna add one other thing, Mike, that has come up that I've been hearing too, that,
Mike Lyon: so you did not, you did not think my list and blog was complete.
Is that what you're telling me? That I, I mean, I failed.
Jen Barkan: I No, no. You did amazing. You did amazing. I just wanted to add this one other little thing.
Mike Lyon: I'm just messing with you.
Jen Barkan: I know you're just messing. Um, is that. Really be proactive and, and tell the story behind your numbers. Right now, everybody is looking at what's happening with the leads.
We need sales. And you know, sales are a result of appointments. Appointments are a result of the engagement that you're getting with your leads. And so go beyond the numbers, give it some color. Really look at lead source conversion. Look at appointment. Um. Buy community, a sale by community. Really kind of dive into that and be able to explain what your numbers, uh, are.
You know, not just like, here's my metrics, but like, explain and be able to talk about it. Um, and, you know, stay in the, know about what's happening. That is a huge value to your marketer. Uh, to your leadership, to sales so that they can really understand what's happening with the leads.
Mike Lyon: Jen, I like that. I see your, I see your go beyond the numbers and I'll raise you a dealing with cranky sales reps.
Here's a quick little story time.
Jen Barkan: Okay.
Mike Lyon: I'm on with a newer online sales specialist who said literally I had a sales rep hang up on me. Hmm. Hang up on me. I was like, tell me more. And, you know, classic case of experience, AKA old head, um, online, you know, sales specialist. Like, just, what are you doing with my leads?
Giving me my leads? What's ha you know, that whole thing. Right.
Jen Barkan: Whatever.
Mike Lyon: Loser. That's what I would say about that.
Jen Barkan: Yeah.
Mike Lyon: Get outta here. And she's like, what do I do about that? I'm doing doing this, I'm doing that. I was like, you know the whole classic thing, get to know him, try and help him understand your role.
She's like, I've done that and he's still kind of cranky. And I go, okay, awesome. I go, here's the two, here's my two recommendations. Number one, usually sales reps, especially when the market is tight and they're under a crunch and they're trying to hit their numbers mm-hmm.
Jen Barkan: Are
Mike Lyon: like, what are you doing with my leads?
Like you need to tell 'em how many actual leads you got for him. Right, right. And how many of those have responded? And how many of those appointments do you set? Once they see that you've only gotten 10 leads this month for him and that six have responded and four have set an appointment, they'll probably chill out because they think in some weird land that we're in, that you're managing thousands of leads that just aren't making it through to him.
Right. Which is not the case. So they need a little bit of exposure on those numbers. Mm-hmm.
So
Mike Lyon: I like what you're saying. Yeah. I say like expose the actual numbers of what happens so you can keep those. Sales reps who are under pressure at bay. This one's just crazy and probably doesn't even be working for the company anymore.
Yeah. But other ones do feel that pressure and want to know what's going on. Um, so I just want to encourage you on that. That's the other thing that you can do to add values that continue connection with the sales team as well. Yeah. So I just wanted to throw that little story in there 'cause it was wild.
I have never heard that. No, that's perfect.
Jen Barkan: That happens. I haven't heard of sales reps hanging
Mike Lyon: up on an online sales. Person before
Jen Barkan: I, I, and I guess
Mike Lyon: the other thing I said, I just wanna tell everybody advice. If you do have one of those salespeople that you just cannot turn around, I said, here's what you tell 'em.
Um, hey, do you want me to send you the leads whenever they respond? And then they'll go, yeah. I was like, great, I'll do that. And, and, and when I was giving this advice, they go, am I supposed to do that? I said, no, you just tell 'em you're gonna do it. And then set appointments for 'em, whatever, like. Stop it.
Yeah. Come on. We're all adults anyway.
Jen Barkan: Well, Mike, this is, uh, I had a similar situation, so this is, this is happening and this always happens when it gets tough. The other thing I just wanna encourage you to do, if this is happening, um, you know, it happens initially, definitely go directly to the sales person and, and try to talk with them about it.
Work it out between you two versus. Running right to leadership and, and getting them involved. You always wanna try that first as an extension of their team. That's how you kind of, you know, build that connection. Mm-hmm. If it doesn't work and it's a pattern, then of course bringing your leadership, but I love it, man.
We've, you've given us a lot to think about today, Mike. Definitely. Hey, that's, that's
Mike Lyon: why, that's why you pay me the medium bucks,
Jen Barkan: Jen. That's right. That's why we had you on as a guest,
Mike Lyon: just a guest of the
Jen Barkan: national award-winning online people talking. Yes,
Mike Lyon: I've won no awards. By the way, do I, if I'm on this, does that mean I won a silver?
Jen Barkan: Yes, absolutely. So maybe I, there, I, maybe I You're part, yes, you're part, you're part of the awards. Um, okay. Skills check, because you better check yourself before you wreck yourself. And so of course you guessed it. Okay. We've given you lots of things here to, um, think about how you can add additional value.
So pick one. Really lean into that particular thing. Talk with leadership about your plan, what you know, how you're gonna approach this, and take some time in the next couple months and really, really focus on this. Um, I love it. Anything else to add to, I, I have a skill.
Mike Lyon: I have a skills check. Different one.
Okay. Subscribe to the podcast. Yes. And rate it. Like, go give it. Mm-hmm. 72 stars or what's the ever the Max Stars are. And even you get bonus points if you leave a review for it and let us know that you did it. That's the great, that's the best thing that you can do for this podcast, to get it rolling out to the world.
Jen Barkan: Yeah. And
Mike Lyon: to more like, it's, it's wild to us how many people we actually work with and we're like, do you know we have a podcast? And we're like, oh yeah, I guess, uh, I should listen to that. Yeah. This'll help you be better at your job. Um, so go like, subscribe, rate, leave a review. We don't ever want to do ads on these, right?
Do we, Jen? That's right.
Jen Barkan: No,
Mike Lyon: if not, I'm gonna start like doing Hey, I mean, Chen Casino ads. You
Jen Barkan: guys like Uncle Mikey showing up. Uh, definitely. Uncle Mikey,
Mike Lyon: my wife says, I'm not supposed to say she. That's weird. And I'm like, oh, whatever. That's weird. Okay.
Jen Barkan: All right. I
Mike Lyon: like it. Cousin
Jen Barkan: Mikey. I don't know. Is that weird too? Cousin
Mike Lyon: Mikey's weird. Uncle Mikey. Uncle Mikey means, you know, something's about to happen. About to happen. Uncle Mike comes, Ugh.
Jen Barkan: Yeah,
Mike Lyon: that's, he's cranky.
He doesn't have, he doesn't have time for anything. He doesn't have kids. You know? He is one of those uncles that doesn't have any kids, doesn't have any patience. He's my alter ego, uncle Mike.
Jen Barkan: All right, Mike, thank you so much for being here, and we'll see Jen, Jen,
Mike Lyon: blessings upon you,
Jen Barkan: blessings in your
Mike Lyon: household.
This
Jen Barkan: was fun.
Mike Lyon: You know, it's, it's been my favorite podcast to, to this week. I'm gonna do one tomorrow. I was gonna say,
Jen Barkan: let's see how that one compares.
Mike Lyon: I'll rate it so far. I give this one like an eight, seven.
Jen Barkan: An eight, 8.7 mm.
Mike Lyon: Yeah. You know, I
Jen Barkan: don't like getting anything better under, under a 10, so under geez.
Mike Lyon: Alright, see ya.
Jen Barkan: Bye. Thanks for joining this episode of Online People Talking. You can access more online sales content by going to our website@doyouconvert.com or by following us on our social media platforms. You can also get regular updates by subscribing to our monthly newsletter. Thanks so much for listening today and investing in yourself, and if you have questions, please email us at show@doconvert.com.
Now go get after it.
