Like and subscribe on your favorite platform!

Like and subscribe on your favorite platform!

Like and subscribe on your favorite platform!

Like and subscribe on your favorite platform!

Story Time:

• Beth makes a call for marketers to reclaim authority—and stop letting others clutter the top of the funnel.
• Jackie recounts the “ChatGPT is replacing Google” debate—and why data still tells a different story.
•  Inspiration and burnout: Why looking outside the industry isn’t helpful without true internal context.
• Kevin reflects on building your message for marketers who’ve been in the seat for 12 months or less, and how leadership often unintentionally derails them.

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS

Online Sales & Marketing Summit 50% Sold Out! Grab Your Tickets Today

In The News: 

• 2025 SEM-PPC Benchmarks by Sarah Simmerman  
• Top Chatbots Are Giving Horrible Financial Advice
• See How Your State Ranks on the New Realtor.com Report Card
• Why the Housing Market is Actually Much Healthier in 2025

Things We Love - Things We Hate:

• Jackie: LOVES YouTube (University) for solving everyday problems—one backyard faucet at a time.
• Beth: Hates eye dilation after a doctor visit; loves ambient bird sounds as background for builder content.
• Kevin: Loves a builder video that highlights running errands on a typical Saturday in a particular community.

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Story Time (1:15):

• Julie shares how simply improving website content transformed lead quality and campaign results.
• Beth reminds us that content needs intentionality—posting for followers ≠ posting for buyers.
• Beth “confesses” to inviting Kevin to a strategy call—and how collaboration shifted a builder’s mindset.
• Kevin reflects on staying calm in market chaos and helping new marketers zoom out from ad metrics to real business impact. AI to the rescue: Kevin uses "deep research" AI to fix his fridge (and skips paying an overpriced repair bill).

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS

Online Sales & Marketing Summit 50% Sold Out! Grab Your Tickets Today

In The News: 

• Opt-In To OpenAI’s Memory Feature? 5 Crucial Things To Know
• How Tariffs Will Impact Digital Ad Spend (in surprising ways!)
• Google Will Keep Cookies and Backtrack on its Opt-Out Plans
• New Data: Google's AI Overviews are Hurting (Some) Click-through Rates

Things We Love - Things We Hate:

• Beth: Loved Disney’s flawless experience (and its marketing mastery); felt the pain of Universal’s less-than-magical contrast.
• Julie: Finally saw Hamilton live—loved it even more than expected, especially with her fully-costumed son 
• Kevin: Loves carbs in Italy, hates the chaos of driving through medieval towns (and possibly racking up €500 in traffic violations).
• BONUS - link to the Chik-fil-a article Kevin referenced

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💡 Highlights of Educational Programs:

🧠 Online Sales & Marketing Summit

• Returning to Chicago by popular demand

• Focuses on education, networking, and industry best practices

• Largest gathering of online sales specialists in the industry

• “The biggest party for online sales specialists in the universe!”

🎓 Online Sales Academy

• 8-week virtual course for new or untrained OSCs

• Includes 3 live sessions + on-demand training

• Offers a certification upon completion

• Next session: Starts May 20, 2025

👩‍💼 Online Sales Academy: Leadership Edition

• For leaders managing OSCs

• Includes 3-day kickoff, quarterly sessions, and summit meet-up

• Emphasizes program success metrics and understanding the OSC role

📈 Market Proof Marketing Academy

• Expanded to include strategy, execution, and leadership insights

• Led by Jackie, Sarah, Beth, Julie, Karla, and Kevin

• Covers Google/Meta marketing, budgeting, algorithms, and more

• Next session: May 6–8, 2025 with follow-ups over 8 weeks

🎨 Rise and Design (New!)

• A creative retreat for marketers and designers

• In-person, hands-on intensive in Columbus, OH (Aug 27–28)

• Co-led by Karla Tuten and Kevin Oakley

• Designed for brand, creative, and marketing teams needing community and deeper problem-solving

🤝 Marketing Leadership Collective

• Year-long leadership development for marketers

• Involves curated peer groups, guest speakers, mentorship, and industry-first previews

• Originated as a “shadow project,” now a cornerstone experience

• Invitation-based, application required

🗣️ Notable Quotes:

• “This is like a crash course in new home marketing—by nerds, for nerds.” – Jackie

• “You’ll feel seen. Inspired. Reinvigorated.” – Beth

• “We’re doing the Lord’s work.” – Mike (in jest)

📢 Closing Notes:

• Subscribe, rate & review the podcast

• Share feedback at show@doyouconvert.com

• Join the free DYC All Access membership for behind-the-scenes content

• Special thanks to all past and future Academy attendees!

Transcript"

Mike Lyon: Yeah, yeah, some little behind the scenes before we get on.

Mike Lyon: Mike was chastising everybody about the audio.

Mike Lyon: Jen was right.

Mike Lyon: Prize.

Jen Barkan: Surprise, surprise.

Beth Russell: Know, self-proclaimed audio engineer.

Mike Lyon: Yes, I build websites, and I have Misophonia which you can. Google, that one, ladies and gentlemen hey, welcome to episode 384. My name is Mike Lyon, and with me today are these illustrious, wonderful people, Beth, Jackie, Sarah Jen. Carla will join us eventually, and the sound is a little bit different

Mike Lyon: my voice, because Kevin Oakley is gone. He is on a world world tour of Italy

Mike Lyon: with his wife for his 20th

Mike Lyon: wedding anniversary. And I was thinking about this guys, have you, have you ever seen Kevin go anywhere with Jess's wife?

Jackie Lipinski: Now.

Jen Barkan: No.

Mike Lyon: I have.

Mike Lyon: I don't think I have either.

Jackie Lipinski: I'm pretty sure he giggled in a video. And I was like, What is that, Kevin?

Mike Lyon: What is happening.

Jackie Lipinski: Yeah.

Jen Barkan: Eating ice, eating gelato twice.

Mike Lyon: I know.

Jen Barkan: We've been.

Mike Lyon: Stalking his stories. But I really would. I want to fact, check that when he gets back to see if he has ever been somewhere, just with his wife only.

Mike Lyon: But we're so happy for him. What do we do when he's gone? We take over the podcast

Mike Lyon: and I know

Mike Lyon: you know the opening says that we're here to help you not sell you. But when Mike takes over I start selling stuff.

Jen Barkan: No.

Beth Russell: Oh, my goodness!

Mike Lyon: Watch out everybody. Yeah, it's gonna happen. No. But what are we? What do we want to do? We want to do something fun and unique.

Mike Lyon: This for this podcast and not just to obviously drop something on you, but also save it for posterity in the future. Because we have so many educational opportunities for our builder partners, and beyond in the home builder space that we wanted to go through each one and kind of talk about what it is and who it's for. And so that's why we have these awesome people together. We're going to try and break the Internet and just invite everybody

Mike Lyon: from our our company to join

Mike Lyon: So that's what we're gonna do today. Excuse me, and then we'll we'll take and put this out there. So if someone, you know sends an email and says, Should I come to? You know the marketing leadership collective? We'll go, hey? Listen to this cause Beth's gonna talk about it.

Mike Lyon: How does that sound? Everybody? You guys excited.

Jackie Lipinski: Yeah.

Jen Barkan: Oh, I'm.

Beth Russell: So.

Jen Barkan: Excited.

Mike Lyon: You sound. You guys, all.

Jen Barkan: I.

Mike Lyon: Unacceptable.

Mike Lyon: He was like.

Jen Barkan: Excited.

Jackie Lipinski: So excited.

Jen Barkan: So excited. I cannot wait to talk about this.

Mike Lyon: We're going to.

Beth Russell: Soundboard.

Mike Lyon: Shut it down.

Beth Russell: Sounds.

Mike Lyon: We're gonna do this another time. All right. No, here we go. Just so let's start 1st with a Biggie, the Biggie, because when you're hearing this.

Mike Lyon: ladies and gentlemen. It will be live and open and available to the public.

Jen Barkan: Hmm.

Mike Lyon: Drumroll, please. It's the online sales and marketing summit.

Jen Barkan: Working.

Mike Lyon: We're turning back over to our the magical city of Chicago. We're going back to Chicago by popular demand. Everybody loved it. Everybody loves the food scene there. It's like a Timu New York. What is it? It's like?

Mike Lyon: It's like.

Jackie Lipinski: Hey!

Mike Lyon: 50% of New York for like 50% of the price. You know, that's why we love Chicago. It really is fun. Did you guys have fun last time.

Beth Russell: Yeah.

Jen Barkan: Oh, my God!

Beth Russell: Chicago. It was always my favorite, too, like when I was still in the seat, and would attend.

Beth Russell: Chicago is my favorite.

Mike Lyon: It is a special city, Jackie. Why did you get so offended? Because you're from Chicago.

Jackie Lipinski: Yeah, of course, I'm like.

Jen Barkan: Yeah.

Jackie Lipinski: You're like hurting my hometown, I was like, oh, yes, it is amazing. It is better, although I've never been in New York, so don't bite me.

Mike Lyon: No, judge, no, don't judge. What I was saying is, Chicago is awesome. I mean, I go to Chicago like once a year, just on my own with my wife I mean.

Jackie Lipinski: Like the walkability of the venue is great. And this year we're changing up with like the date of the week. And because so many people were staying for through the weekend we're like, alright, let's make it built in. So most people can continue to see that weekend. So.

Mike Lyon: So.

Jackie Lipinski: I'm really excited.

Mike Lyon: We're excited about the summit. We've been there done that we're going back to the same hotel, so we know how to make this awesome, and we're bringing in some magical speakers. We always like to rotate some of those speakers on the on the 1st morning, and then plug in our attendees to speak in the seat. But let's talk about what the online sales and marketing summit is for those of you who may not know or they're hearing this, this is like,

Mike Lyon: the event where you get a little taste and a sample of all the things that you can do in in the marketing, online marketing world and the online sales world and the creative services world, and you get people talking about like cool stuff that they're doing. And it's all over 2 days.

Mike Lyon: Lot of it's content, rich. It is content, heavy. And we give all this stuff to you. Jam packed in 2 days, and we do it all for the price of admission. We're not going to sell you anything else. You're not going to get hounded by our partners. They're there to just learn alongside with you.

Mike Lyon: So it's just a different vibe. I don't know. I I we've tried to create something around it, and we did it a little bit on accident.

Mike Lyon: Following that pro. You know, thing like we're gonna help you not sell you. I'm gonna give you everything for free. Last year, unbeknownst to me, Mike, the Scrooge Mcduck, over here.

Mike Lyon: They just put a whole all our books on the back end for free, and people were just taking our books I was like, I didn't know we were doing that. That's fun. It's like Christmas. Jen, what do you think about the summit? What do you like about it?

Jen Barkan: Well, I know I'm biased. But I've been to a lot of different conferences. And this is truly unique. One, speaking from the online sales side of things. It is the biggest party for online sales specialists in the universe. Because there's nothing like this. I mean, we're bringing hundreds of online sales specialists together. And you know, as an attendee, my 1st year I remember sitting there looking around, going. These are all my people.

Jen Barkan: and we've even had that feedback from, you know, over the years of like, Hey, you guys are great. Of course I love hearing from you and learning from you. But where I get so much is just from the people sitting at my table, and those conversations that happen, you know, in between sessions.

Jen Barkan: So it's it really is just a unique special experience out there in the industry.

Mike Lyon: Yeah, I love that. It is the largest collection

Mike Lyon: of online sales specialists in the known universe.

Mike Lyon: So that it is fun. I think last year was over 160

Mike Lyon: that were literally online sales, specialists not just adjacent.

Jen Barkan: Right.

Mike Lyon: What do you guys think from the marketing? And what would you say is so special about the marketing side of the summit? Beth.

Beth Russell: You are given a ton of information at all different levels. So it fits for every single attendee, regardless of where they are in their career. But to kind of reiterate what Jen said. It was the one week of the year where I truly felt seen where I was surrounded by people that understood the highs and the lows of what I did that were

Beth Russell: trying to conquer the same obstacles that I was trying to conquer, and I always left with this fire lit inside me of like I'm going to do better. I'm going to be better. I feel inspired. I feel completely reinvigorated of what it is that I do, and I know I'm in the right position. It really. That week I say a whole week, because I would always add a day or 2 before or after.

Beth Russell: really helped me get through the rest of the year, if I'm being honest, and I'm not sugarcoating that because it's still the same way on this side of things. Jen and I had this conversation after Summit.

Beth Russell: Either it was either last year or the year before, where it was like my 1st summit on the Dyc side, and I was like, it's a different type of fire now, because now I feel it's our responsibility to help keep that fire lit

Beth Russell: and help those networks continue to grow throughout the year. And we're finding new and creative ways to do that from our end. And it's just

Beth Russell: really, really awesome that this exists.

Mike Lyon: Hey? I like that. It is awesome that it exists. All right. So.

Mike Lyon: ladies and gentlemen, if you're hearing this, you're like I haven't been if you've been, you know, you know you know what's up. It's you gotta come back. If you haven't been, you're like, I think I should go to this.

Mike Lyon: I hear a lot of people always say like, Well, I don't know if I can go, and I always turn right around and say, Have you asked.

Mike Lyon: have you gone and forwarded this email or forwarded the link and say, Can I go to this like step one is, ask your leadership. Can I go to this.

Mike Lyon: Step 2 is like.

Jen Barkan: Hmm.

Mike Lyon: Put skin, you know. Put some skin in the game like, if you're worried about

Mike Lyon: the investment or things like that, say, hey, you know I'll I'll pay for my travel. Will you pay for my ticket?

Mike Lyon: Like I I always every summit I went to. I had to pay for myself my builder never paid for. But I I invested in my education. Someone told me, like, invest 10% of your your income into your education.

Mike Lyon: You'll go far, so I'm just telling you like, go ask ask with confidence. There's no better place in the in the world to get a download for 2 days, and, like Beth said, maybe it'll be a good therapy session for you. And you know, like Kumbaya, too. So that's great. All right, we're gonna move on because Jen's got to go to to coach some some online sales specialists. We're gonna talk about the next one on the list which is coming up soon. It's the

Mike Lyon: Online Sales Academy not to be confused with the online sales and marketing summit. Jen, what is this? Who is this.

Jen Barkan: Yes. Oh, my gosh, okay, I thought you'd never ask online sales. Academy. This is an 8 week course, and it's really structured for either a brand new online sales specialist just getting in the role, figuring things out or someone who really has never had any structured training. And so it goes through all of the fundamental.

Jen Barkan: We do, we get funky. We do get funky. It goes through the fundamental

Jen Barkan: skills. You know, core behaviors, that you need to be an ex, a successful online sales specialist. I cannot talk today. We start off this academy with 3 virtual half days together, you know, in person on zoom

Jen Barkan: as as intimate as we can possibly be on zoom getting to know each other going through these core things, and then we stay together for 8 additional weeks of on demand training meeting together virtually periodically, and you finish the course and graduate. If you have completed all the requirements and you get your official online sales certification.

Jen Barkan: So it's a pretty. It's a pretty big deal

Jen Barkan: it is, you know, not for the faint hearted it. It is a lot of work. I'm not gonna lie, but

Jen Barkan: it. You come out on the other side of it. Really feeling like you're set up for success. When you go through this this training, it really is very comprehensive.

Mike Lyon: I think we have probably like a 90%.

Jen Barkan: Yeah.

Mike Lyon: Pass ratio like you gotta pass this 10 page sales readiness, quiz at the end.

Mike Lyon: So but it is.

Jen Barkan: He's got to do homework.

Mike Lyon: It's the first, st you know. It's like the first.st If you're working with us in a long term, you know, coaching arrangement, it's like, roughly, the 1st 2 months of work that you're doing, which is

Mike Lyon: really heavy. So yeah, we've I don't know how many people total have been through this, Jen. How many.

Jen Barkan: I feel like the last time we counted it was this specific online sales Academy. We've we've been doing this since 2,018. That's the 1st year that we did it together. It's over 200 people that have that have gone through this course.

Mike Lyon: Yeah, I love it. Fantastic, alright. And when does what's that date again for for.

Jen Barkan: So our next, our next one coming up starts May 20, th and you know we we do. It is virtual, but we like to keep it, as you know, cozy as possible, because we do really try to get to know everybody and really learn kind of their unique challenges and things. So it is a small, intimate group for a virtual setting.

Mike Lyon: As of this recording how many people have signed up for that one.

Jen Barkan: 15.

Mike Lyon: 15 awesome. That's a good time. I'm gonna be doing it with you this next round.

Jen Barkan: Oh, man, bring it.

Mike Lyon: Oh, my!

Jen Barkan: Bringing the Og back.

Jen Barkan: It's gonna be like olden times with new information.

Mike Lyon: You can't see her face. But Beth was hanging her head and.

Beth Russell: I almost corrected you, and said, Grandpa Mike.

Mike Lyon: Craw.

Jackie Lipinski: Amen!

Jen Barkan: It is rare.

Jackie Lipinski: Out of this fucking.

Jen Barkan: Year to 2018. Yeah, he's yeah.

Jackie Lipinski: Grayer.

Jen Barkan: Definitely a little grayer. I can. I can tell you that.

Mike Lyon: You guys are all here. Reviews are coming.

Beth Russell: We love you, Mike. We love you, Mike.

Mike Lyon: Alright, thank you. Jen. So what do we got coming up? We got market proof marketing Academy. We got rise and design, which is a new one that Carl is gonna be talking about. We got the marketing leadership collective. And I'll talk about online sales, Academy leadership edition. Since Jen's got to go, so I'll I'll walk them through that one. Jen, are you okay with that? Or do you want to do it?

Jen Barkan: Let let me just can. I just do it right now, just because I.

Mike Lyon: Doesn't let her go 2 times in a row.

Jen Barkan: Are you guys? Okay with that? Okay, while I'm here? Okay? Well, listen, pig piggybacking. We have an online sales Academy leadership edition. Where this is. Really, you know, for leaders managing an online sales specialist or program.

Jen Barkan: You know, what we see is most leaders have never sat in the seat as an online sales specialist. And so this is really a deep dive into the role like, if you could crawl into your online sales specialist head

Jen Barkan: and really understand everything that they have to do what success looks like. For the program. And we give you those performance metrics to lead by. This is definitely the program for you. Again, we kick this off with 3 virtual days together, and then we stay together for the year. So this

Jen Barkan: yeah, this goes beyond, you know, an 8 week certification. But we actually stay together for quarterly sessions.

Jen Barkan: And then we meet up at the summit at the online sales and marketing summit because we do have a leadership track at the summit as well. So it's really this is something newer that we're doing this year, and so I have a group going through it right now.

Jen Barkan: and so we will be offering that

Jen Barkan: every year. So stay tuned for the next one.

Mike Lyon: Who's your favorite in that group?

Jen Barkan: They're all my favorite.

Mike Lyon: All right.

Jackie Lipinski: Safe.

Jen Barkan: Yeah, you're not getting me there, Buddy.

Beth Russell: I thought.

Mike Lyon: I thought I could. Okay, next up, we're going to talk about

Mike Lyon: market proof marketing Academy. This is a fun one, and we've got Sarah and Jackie on

Mike Lyon: me to help. So

Mike Lyon: so to talk through this. Now we've done this in the past right, Sarah, and it's been, I would say, probably more focused on the technical end.

Mike Lyon: Right? You get super nerdy on it for those

Mike Lyon: marketers who want to learn more. But this year you guys have all gotten together, and you're expanding it and and talking to it. So I'm gonna let Jackie kind of talk through what that revision looks like. And, Sarah, I want you to talk about like what they're still gonna get from a

Mike Lyon: you know. I don't know nerd nerds.

Jackie Lipinski: 30 seconds.

Jackie Lipinski: Thanks, Mike, you're so sweet, Carla. Just open mouthed at that, because well, and I think, well, any marketer listening to this is like, Yeah.

Mike Lyon: You guys are nerds like, Oh, they are.

Jackie Lipinski: No, this was created for nerds by nerds, market proof, marketing Academy. Let's do this.

Jackie Lipinski: Well. One of the things we said that we wanted to change, and one quote, I love to live by is, you know, be the person you needed when you were younger, and when Sarah and I met about how we want this to look and what could be help. The most people we touched base with Beth, Carla, Julie, Sarah on our team, Kevin, and we said, Let's make sure we pull

Jackie Lipinski: the value out of each team member that we can to make sure every single marketer who comes to the Academy is set up for success in the most

Jackie Lipinski: fast and efficient way that they can be, because different people come to the Academy for different reasons. They might be someone's like, I can't train up my marketing team. I need them to be there at a 20. I need them to be at an 80. So let's get there. Other people have been in the role, and they don't feel like they have a good grasp of understanding. Some people are builder partners. Some people are outside who want to really control what is happening in marketing world and explain that.

Jackie Lipinski: And so it's it's almost like a crash course in new home marketing that Sarah is covering. Really, Sarah, love you so much the found. Thank you for your sacrifice, the foundational marketing elements for Meta, Google analytics the details, and then Beth, me, Sarah, Julie

Jackie Lipinski: Kevin are kind of talking about the additional things you need to know. So we're we're covering.

Mike Lyon: Yeah. What, Jackie? What are you gonna talk about?

Jackie Lipinski: Oh, well, so that's a fun fun!

Jackie Lipinski: thing up for debate. I have an agenda, but what I love is that I listen, and I've sent surveys of what do you need to know? Because I have about 3 things. We have the marketing action plan talking about inventory homes. We have budgeting. Make sure you know your budget, but not just your budget, but also how to move forward. And then we have a few other things that we could just dive deeper into and I know, Beth one. I don't know if you want to talk about your topic.

Mike Lyon: Yeah, Beth, what are you gonna talk about?

Beth Russell: I'm talking about the algorithm. So

Beth Russell: everyone knows that my favorite thing to do with the algorithm is refer to it as an onion, because ogres are like onions. That is a quote from Shrek, and that is a little preview to what I will be discussing in regards to the algorithm.

Mike Lyon: I love it. Now, Sarah, what are what are you gonna go through when we talk about Google and Meta like.

Mike Lyon: do you really need the people who are pressing the buttons to be on this like, how? How's it going to help them with their role?

Sarah Simmerman: Yeah, it'll 100% help the people that are in the platforms actually pushing the buttons. But it will also help

Sarah Simmerman: leaders, marketing leaders and people that aren't necessarily in there just help understand all the metrics, all the performance metrics, and what's going on behind the scenes that way, they can help manage their team, and actually understand what is going on, and to better communicate that with their leadership. So it will help everybody as well.

Mike Lyon: Don't you find that because I know some people go? I don't want to learn how to do Google ads, but they really do have to know some baseline things, so that when we communicate to them they understand what we need, and vice versa, and

Mike Lyon: changes and adjustments, because we don't want anybody to be in the dark. So we're really encouraging them to know

Mike Lyon: what we do, because that builds that better and tighter relationship right.

Sarah Simmerman: Yeah, we take a look, a lot at the actual metrics that you're going to be looking at, and what actually can be shifted to make the change you need to, for to meet your business goals, your sales, goals, or your lead goals. So we take a look at in depth. Look at that as well as reporting, and then also how to build the ads, and how to have your account structured in a way that's set up correctly best for home builders.

Mike Lyon: Well, I think that's interesting, because we do some things that are counterintuitive to what your Google Rep will tell you to do.

Sarah Simmerman: Okay.

Mike Lyon: And so that helps you kind of defend your position a little bit. If someone comes along and says, Why aren't we, Geo. Fencing or saying random words that

Mike Lyon: don't really mean the same thing that we think they are. Why, why don't we do pmax stuff and so helping them understand what makes sense

Mike Lyon: builders do things different. I love that. And I do love the nerdy side of it. I just want you guys to know.

Beth Russell: You are an audio engineer.

Mike Lyon: I'm an audio engineer and a website builder. And now I'm doing Gpt, so I'm building Gpts.

Mike Lyon: I mean, I'm just doing it all. I'm Gonna edit, this podcast. Watch me, just watch me. This podcast. Will be edited by Mike lion. So, Jackie, when is the next one coming up.

Jackie Lipinski: May 6, 7, 8, th it's gonna be 3 days. And then with when we talked about what we want this to look like, and how can it best support marketers taking a you know, some knowledge bombs from the online Sales Academy and really seeing where their strength is and making sure that education

Jackie Lipinski: isn't just go gone in the air like we. We follow up with you. There's tests you have to prove yourself, and then we have we meet 4 times within those 8 weeks, and then we have 4 pre recorded sessions. And then there are tests. So we're really trying to make sure. There. There's no excuses after you attend this, not to be a well rounded new home marketer.

Jackie Lipinski: so we're excited.

Mike Lyon: Love it all right. Next up the one I've just been. I'm so excited about.

Mike Lyon: I I just it just it makes my heart full. It's full of joy

Mike Lyon: and ex excitement to hear about this new offering. I want to call it Academy because not Academy. Carla. Why don't you tell the world

Mike Lyon: what you have cooking.

Karla Tuten: Thanks, Mike, as you put me on the spot. It's our rise in design.

Mike Lyon: It's like a little creative retreat. It's my secret project.

Mike Lyon: Put you on the spot. What are you talking about? We have notes that we're going off of. We talked about this. And it, guys, is this on the spot?

Mike Lyon: I still feel on the spot. You got this.

Mike Lyon: You're gonna kill it all right. We're gonna restart. Here we go, Carla, take it away.

Karla Tuten: Well, thanks, Mike. I'm working on a little secret project.

Mike Lyon: Oh, this is great! I love it all right. Go, Carla.

Karla Tuten: Yeah. So we have a little secret project that's been under wraps until I revealed it as a side note to Mike. Our little rise in design.

Karla Tuten: It's like a day and a half retreat in Columbus, Ohio. It's in person.

Karla Tuten: Hmm,

Mike Lyon: That's different, because these other ones are virtual. Well, not the summit, but this one's going to be in person, which is great.

Karla Tuten: Yeah, the goal here is well, I think, as we all know, creatives are underserved. But, like the creative, adjacent marketing, adjacent role is underserved. And as more and more builders, we see a need of like having to educate having to.

Karla Tuten: We have a lot more branding going on, a lot more talks about how they look visually brand consistency. So the goal with this is to get in person fuel our creativity, but also bring in outside the industry.

Karla Tuten: and also get some really nitty gritty in the weed stuff, too. That's specific to our niche. So it's very hands on. It's an intensive. There's like a half day intensive. 5 h workshop with Kevin and I, and you get to split up into groups and really work through deeply. Some

Karla Tuten: real world prompts that we see and problems that we have from builders every day. So that's what I'm really excited about.

Mike Lyon: Well, I'm excited because I don't think this has ever been offered anywhere, ever right.

Karla Tuten: No, no, so we had to make it up, and I love it.

Mike Lyon: At least not in home building, I mean. I haven't seen it. So I I was super excited a little behind the scenes.

Mike Lyon: Carla and I.

Mike Lyon: We we sometimes we we butt heads all right, and what we butt heads over is this little term that she's coined, called shadow work.

Mike Lyon: She she does shadow work which sad shadow work and means. I'm not gonna tell Mike so this is ready to go.

Mike Lyon: cause he's so picky and Ocd. And a perfection. So she just like literally threw this out casually at the end of one of our calls. And I'm like she goes something rising design, you know, blah blah, for in the venues I was like, I'm sorry. What is this? And she told me all about? I'm like my mind is blown. This is awesome. This is great. Now, the other thing, Carla, you were like, you're kind of nervous like. Do you think like you think

Mike Lyon: people may not come to this

Mike Lyon: right like you're worried about that, aren't you?

Karla Tuten: Worried. But I'm also it's new, right? We're kind of like in

Karla Tuten: a spot that hasn't been ventured into before.

Mike Lyon: We're going like Star Trek. Right? Go going. What does they? What do they say?

Karla Tuten: Oh, I don't know. I'm not that.

Mike Lyon: It's something like beyond, somewhere beyond, like the front final frontier. I don't know.

Karla Tuten: Something like that.

Mike Lyon: Something like that. Now, Beth, why don't we give her a little bit of encouragement? Do we think people will be excited about this once they see this drop.

Beth Russell: I've already told her that I will pay my own way so that I can go.

Mike Lyon: Go to our own.

Beth Russell: Like this sounds awesome.

Mike Lyon: You don't have to pay full price, I'll give you discount.

Karla Tuten: Yeah, I'll give you a discount. But you know.

Beth Russell: Employee, discount.

Karla Tuten: Everything else is on Mike Lyon's card.

Beth Russell: Yeah.

Mike Lyon: Jackie, what do you think? Would you have loved to do this when you were in the role for American classic.

Jackie Lipinski: I think it's it's 1 of those things that you hear about. And you go finally, like, finally, someone gets me. Finally, there's something that I can really have some good takeaways that not only helps me at my company, but me as a person grow in my role, and and I think that 1st class is really going to

Jackie Lipinski: like same with your Beth, and your leadership, collective, like the 1st class, is really able to discover so many more additional things, and and really set the stage for next year's. So I feel like it would be you're probably going to have more magic this 1st year, because so so much excitement is going to be around it. But yeah, I probably would have attended thanks, thanks for offering that Carla.

Mike Lyon: carla@doyoconvert.com. Send her an email and tell her good job and thank you. When is this? When are you? When.

Jackie Lipinski: Oh, yeah.

Mike Lyon: To Ohio.

Karla Tuten: August 27th and 28.th I'm also doing a presentation on communicating with stakeholders. So if you have input for that, Mike, if you like, how I communicate with you.

Mike Lyon: Yeah, number one. Don't think, do things in the shadows.

Mike Lyon: Thank you.

Mike Lyon: Just kidding is this allowed on the podcast am, I allowed.

Jackie Lipinski: Okay, we're yeah.

Mike Lyon: Am I allowed to? You know, heckle our own team? I don't know.

Karla Tuten: I think it's just. It's.

Beth Russell: We heckle you.

Mike Lyon: Yeah, we're just all you know. We're all great friends.

Jackie Lipinski: I can hear it do right.

Mike Lyon: We're just having a great time over here. Do you convert? All right, Elizabeth? Tell us about the marketing Leadership collective. This is your second year doing this now. So what what is this thing? And how can we get on the list and be a part of the cool kids club.

Beth Russell: Well, speaking of shadow work. It was a shadow work project for a year that we kept a secret.

Mike Lyon: It's kind of like fight club.

Beth Russell: It's kind of yeah. It was totally fight club-esque. But essentially I was very blessed in my career where I received a lot of leadership

Beth Russell: training.

Beth Russell: and I loved it, but I always struggled in part with it, because it was always geared towards sales.

Beth Russell: And so, while I got to attend, I was always having to derive my own takeaways.

Beth Russell: not only from a personal level, but, more importantly, at a professional level, because it was for professional growth, and as many marketers know and struggle with, we're oftentimes kind of in the back, jumping up and down, saying, This is important. Give us a seat at the table. Let us contribute, and similarly to my shrek reference in regards to ogres are like onions. We always like to say that it's like the scene from the Lion King, where everything the light touches is yours.

Beth Russell: Marketing can impact all facets of the organization. So how can we help marketers who are leading a team or not leading a team to not only better themselves professionally and personally.

Beth Russell: but also learn from one another to help grow themselves as leaders within their organization. So that's really where this came from. And what we did originally was bring together a handpicked group of fabulous marketing leaders throughout the nation. We got them together, and we built this from the ground up, and what it has now become is a yearly class

Beth Russell: of marketers coming together, where not only do you collaborate more organically on different topics that are pertinent to what they're going through right now, but also guest speakers.

Beth Russell: people that they admire in the industry people that they want to hear from come in and join us. Mike and Kevin joined us last year, and gave us a little peek behind the curtain, which was really fun.

Beth Russell: And we talk about leadership. We're talking about pouring into ourselves, pouring into others. We talk about struggles with communication to the C-suite, or to peers, etc. And then what's really cool about it is the reason why we call it the collective is because we've created a network of mentors and mentees. So essentially, each class is the mentor group for the next class. And there's a connection that will

Beth Russell: form year after year, and we get together whenever we can throughout the year. So, for example, we'll get together for a dinner

Beth Russell: the summit this year. We got together for dinner at

Beth Russell: Ibs, and it was the most fun night of the week, and I'm not. I mean Jackie and Carla attest to that. Yeah.

Beth Russell: So it's it's pretty fabulous, and it's everything that I wish I would have had.

Mike Lyon: Now listen. This this one and the online Sales Academy leadership edition and the rise in the design is an application.

Mike Lyon: First, st like, you gotta you gotta apply and make sure that this is a good fit

Mike Lyon: So that's a little bit of the velvet rope. But we do want to make sure it's going to be a good, you know, impactful for you, and also that you fit within the audience. But for those of builders out there, or folks who've heard of the builder. 20 groups.

Mike Lyon: It's kind of like a 20 group for marketers and 20 group for online sales leaders or 20 group, for it's like, when you come to these things, you have to bear your soul and share all of your you know

Mike Lyon: things that you may not share to the public. It's like real numbers, real results, real data, real problems and real solutions. So.

Beth Russell: Yeah.

Mike Lyon: It's a pretty awesome. It's a pretty awesome thing.

Beth Russell: And they get to see sign kind of like velvet rope like when we're testing out new tools.

Beth Russell: You convert. We send it to them 1st to try out, which is pretty cool.

Mike Lyon: I like it.

Karla Tuten: Oh, I have a lot of shadow work I could send out to my.

Jackie Lipinski: That's.

Beth Russell: Let's collab.

Mike Lyon: I'm sure of my gloves. Yeah.

Mike Lyon: I hey, Carl, I really appreciate your shadow work.

Karla Tuten: Thank you one day you won't.

Mike Lyon: Know that.

Karla Tuten: One day you'll be like, stop doing this.

Mike Lyon: I want to say that to you in front of the team. All right. So as I as we're talking through this 1st of all I love hearing. You got your guys passion

Mike Lyon: talking through all of these things, and I think that comes through and how we prepare for that content. I also just realized this.

Mike Lyon: The market proof marketing Academy and the online Sales Academy do twice a year.

Mike Lyon: And we got everything else that's like 8 things.

Mike Lyon: Are we like an educt? Are we like a college? I mean, what are we? I didn't. I didn't really realize.

Jackie Lipinski: I. I did get a compliment this week. Wow! Do you? Convert? Is a master class.

Jackie Lipinski: just as a whole.

Mike Lyon: I mean kind of.

Jackie Lipinski: Masterclass.

Mike Lyon: Yeah, like

Mike Lyon: for for the for the price of maybe 3 classes at a community college, you're gonna you can get a Mba and.

Mike Lyon: Home builder, marketing

Mike Lyon: or home Builder online. It's pretty cool. I'm I'm impressed. And I just appreciate. I mean, I don't have to do this stuff. I mean, I get to jump on and talk about it on a podcast but you guys are doing the real work. You're doing the Lord's work. I appreciate you all.

Mike Lyon: It's ex-it's exciting, all right. So

Mike Lyon: who presented the best. Let's rate everybody. We'll, I'm just kidding. We're not gonna do that.

Mike Lyon: What else you guys have to add, we're gonna wrap it up, and then I'll do. I have a little request here at the end for those of you who stayed on to the end of this podcast takeover for market proof marketing.

Mike Lyon: What do you guys have to add anything else that we're missing.

Beth Russell: I think it's just a shout out to all the people that have gone through the academies gone who are going to sign up for rise and design, who have gone through the marketing leadership collective because it really it's only successful because they put their all into it. So you guys are what motivate us to continue to build these types of programs. And we love the feedback. We love the participation. And just thank you for giving your all.

Mike Lyon: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's definitely the vibe. If you feel that at the summit and you feel that at these it's not compulsory

Mike Lyon: like this isn't like when you have to go to defensive driving to get points off your record

Mike Lyon: right? You see, people that are just miserable trying to get through. For no, these are people who want to better themselves and are looking for people and solutions. And you feel that like that vibe is different, both on small engagements like this, or big engagements like the summit. That's what we get from. Everybody is like. I finally found

Mike Lyon: my people, and those relationships follow you. That professional growth follows you. So that's a really good point. I like that a lot. All right.

Mike Lyon: So you stay with us this long. I have a request notice we don't run ads on our podcast right. I might start running ads for Chumba, Casino

Mike Lyon: Chamba Casino. Have you heard? Those are terrible

Mike Lyon: but we don't do that because this is for you like we're here to help you. Not sell you ads. But I do have a request.

Mike Lyon: go out there and subscribe to the podcast.

Mike Lyon: rate the podcast and leave a little review on the podcast I think the last. Time. I was looking on apple reviews.

Mike Lyon: I don't know when the last one was. Maybe Jackie can look that up while I'm doing this, but it was a while ago.

Jackie Lipinski: Was a little bit ago.

Mike Lyon: Yeah, you gotta tell us, if you like this, if what we're doing, and if you are, approve of Carla's shadow work.

Mike Lyon: tell us in the comments tell us in the review.

Beth Russell: Do you like when Mike takes over.

Mike Lyon: Yeah, do you like it or not? Like, maybe go review this one.

Mike Lyon: They sold too much. All they're doing is selling on the podcast

Mike Lyon: also, we have opt online people talking with Jen bark. And I think we should drop those in this feed.

Jackie Lipinski: Hmm.

Mike Lyon: And and say, Hey, by the way, here's a little bonus episode for you guys, I've seen podcasts do that before.

Mike Lyon: But we do we do love the feedback from you guys. You can always send us any questions. Anything else, fun, things that are happening that show@doyouconvert.com.

Mike Lyon: Don't forget to become a member for free

Mike Lyon: on Dyc. All access that is on doucconvert.com.

Mike Lyon: You can watch behind the scenes episodes. You can listen to our podcast before they drop, you can get all that shadow work that you want to get done and see what's happening with Carla, private hangouts, and more. You'll hear it first.st There, register for our newsletter. I'm always surprised how many people are not registered for our Newsletter, where we send all this stuff out to you, free content and more. But thank you so much. And this is a fun. Take over. What do you guys think you like it when we do.

Mike Lyon: You did. Great Mike, I did.

Beth Russell: Appreciate your 10 out of 10.

Mike Lyon: It's been raining out of 10. Okay, good Jackie. How many out of 10? What was I.

Jackie Lipinski: I'll give you. I'll give you 9.

Mike Lyon: I'll take a night, Carla.

Jackie Lipinski: It's a little. It's a little too much.

Karla Tuten: 8.5.

Mike Lyon: And Sarah.

Beth Russell: It's going down, Sarah giving me 7.

Sarah Simmerman: What was that, sir?

Mike Lyon: 7, apparently a 7. Okay.

Jackie Lipinski: She was swayed.

Mike Lyon: Well, I guess that's it. We'll see you guys.

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Kevin, Julie, and Jackie unpack the difference between shortcut thinking and strategic depth in marketing—from the value of real buyer stories to asking better follow-up questions. They explore how transparency, timing, and self-awareness can shape stronger marketing strategies without leaning on fear or fluff. Plus: AI overload, advisory boards, and what happens when salespeople skip the long game.

Story Time: 

• Julie shares the best interview question she’s heard—and how it changes team culture.

• Jackie’s husband donates blood—and the group discusses how builders can build loyalty by closing the feedback loop.

• Kevin reflects on the difference between discovering problems vs. solving them once—and why advisory boards must be experiential, not just informational.

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS

Unlock Your Digital Marketing Potential: Master Proven Strategies With The Upgraded Market Proof Marketing Academy!
Final Chance!

Online Sales & Marketing Summit Tickets Now On Sale!

In The News: 

Why "Just" is the Most Dangerous Word in Marketing and Design

Debt Data Rings Alarms

Do Homebuilders Waste Money on Marketing No One Trusts?

Things We Love - Things We Hate:

• Julie hates that Meta keeps tweaking ad settings behind the scenes—expect an update from Sarah Simmerman soon.

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Beth, Jackie, and Julie uncover the value of process-driven problem-solving in marketing, from diagnosing odd data spikes to rethinking event strategy. They explore how tools like Loom, AI creator hubs, and collaborative data practices can transform communication and performance. Plus, honest talk about what Mercedes at The Masters can teach builders about intentional brand experiences.

Story Time (02:06): 

• Jackie’s knee injury turns into a masterclass on data diagnosis and marketing analysis—hello, Market Proof Algorithm IRL.
• Julie shares a case of suspicious ad results that weren’t what they seemed, and the importance of digging deeper.
• Beth compares marketing detective work to an episode of House (or Scooby-Doo), and how uncovering truth takes time.

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS

Unlock Your Digital Marketing Potential: Master Proven Strategies With The Upgraded Market Proof Marketing Academy!
Over 50% of tickets have been sold! Class begins May 6th.

Online Sales & Marketing Summit VIP Tickets Now On Sale!

In The News (21:13): 

Meta's Instagram Announces New AI-Powered Tools, Creator Marketing Solutions

Bad Data Bleeds Homebuilder Profits - Time to Stop The Loss

(Referenced) Attribution is B.S. - 3 Part Guide

Things We Love - Things We Hate (31:33):

• Jackie: Winning her Toastmasters speech competition—proof that exposure therapy works!
• Julie: Her 16-year-old’s joy over his first car (older than he is).
• Beth: Watching her Marketing Leadership Collective cohort bond and pour into one another.

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In this episode, Kevin, Beth, and Julie dive into the psychological journey of today’s homebuyer—especially how they often say they’re “just looking” while subconsciously preparing to buy. From a sister’s “accidental” contract to the unexpected post-sale influence of a handyman, this one’s all about perception, timing, and customer experience. They also unpack the return of escalation clauses (wait - WHAT?), digital marketing data myths, and the tangled web of AI over-promises—yes, we’re looking at you, Siri.

Story Time (01:00): 

• Mike Lyon reflects on early OSC days, when managing leads felt like a side hustle.
• Kevin Oakley’s family listens to old podcast episodes, roasting his past takes and how you can get more sales with fewer leads.
• Jackie shares a content strategy for competing with national builders.

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS

Unlock Your Digital Marketing Potential: Master Proven Strategies With The Upgraded Market Proof Marketing Academy!
Tickets are now available! Class begins May 6th.

Online Sales & Marketing Summit VIP Tickets Go On Sale April 4th. You're on the VIP list, right?

In The News (16:45): 

What's Your CTR Telling You?  A Guide to Understanding Click-Through Rate

Apple Is Lying About Apple Intelligence

7 Facts About Today's Buyers

Perplexity's Biggest Ad Yet Pits Its AI Search Against "Poogle"

Things We Love - Things We Hate (41:29):

• Beth: TwoPages Curtains
• Julie: Jiu Jitsu
• Kevin: A fancy letter opener, and the guitar his kids got him

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Kevin Oakley is back this week, and is joined by Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell. This week's episode kicks off with a funny story from Kevin about being everyone's best friend, and shifts into story time, covering insightful calls with builders the team has had recently. News stories discussed include Google lifting its 2019 ban on fingerprinting for advertisers, a deep dive into the effectiveness of builder incentives, AI readiness in homebuilding, and a new task manager blog written by DYC's very own, Samantha Kellenberger!

Story Time (02:31): 

• Mike Lyon reflects on early OSC days, when managing leads felt like a side hustle.
• Kevin Oakley’s family listens to old podcast episodes, roasting his past takes and how you can get more sales with fewer leads.
• Jackie shares a content strategy for competing with national builders.

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

Unlock Your Digital Marketing Potential: Master Proven Strategies With The Upgraded Market Proof Marketing Academy!
Tickets are now available! Class begins May 6th.

In The News (24:15): 

Why "Just" is the Most Dangerous Word in Marketing and Design

Redfin Acquired By Rocket Companies

AI Search Has Some Big Problems

Google Announces "AI Mode" For Search Results That Only Shows You AI Slop

Forget Dream Homes - Here's What First Time Buyers Really Want in 2025

Things We Love - Things We Hate (53:30):

• Jackie: Her son’s birthday & the infamous "Bluey" cake fail.
• Mike: His love-hate relationship with AI for schoolwork.
• Kevin: Discovering that both he & his wife are obsessed with analogies.

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Story Time:

• $50 gift card prize for top IBS takeaways from All Access members
• Beth shares insights from an Oscar winner that can apply to builders
• Jackie has an incredible customer service experience that included a lot of content
• Kevin did a webinar for the WHLG about Realtor relations with builders - and shares his favorite question from Q&A

Market Proof Marketing Academy Is Back - And Upgraded! (23:50):
May 6 - 8th plus 8 weeks of ongoing education and additional opportunities

In The News (26:50): 

• 3 Keys To The Spring Market from Builder Magazine (plus an in-depth discussion on the use of incentives)
• YouTube Mid-Roll Ads Improving Soon
• 5 Trillion Reasons Google Searches Still Matter
• Should You Tell Your Prospects To Buy Before The Tariffs? (discussion about the article - not as much talk about the article)

Things We Love - Things We Hate (50:15):

• Beth: Spring training!
• Jackie: Her ideal birthday present
• Kevin: If Apple made a 2nd monitor you can travel with (and it has a touch screen!)

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Kevin Oakley is back this week, and is joined by Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell. This week's episode kicks off with a funny story from Kevin about being everyone's best friend, and shifts into story time, covering insightful calls with builders the team has had recently. News stories discussed include Google lifting its 2019 ban on fingerprinting for advertisers, a deep dive into the effectiveness of builder incentives, AI readiness in homebuilding, and a new task manager blog written by DYC's very own, Samantha Kellenberger!

Story Time (04:40): 

• Julie has been working on her IBS presentation around brand consistency, and how providing guardrails (using LEGO as a great example) keeps things consistent while using user generated content. 
• Kevin follows-up surrounding a recent conversation about creating rules, and showcasing content to inform certainty. 
• Beth had an interesting call with a company owner, who referenced the Hippocratic Oath that doctors make -- do no harm -- and tied it to their website. For example, putting too much information out there and over-engineering what you're showcasing can cause more harm than good. 
• Kevin reminds: until you hit a minimum lead quantity, you don't get to complain about lead quality! 
• Kevin spoke to a builder this week who has one community performing very differently than others despite having similar processes for marketing. Using GA4's path exploration tool, he noticed that the options people were clicking most were the items right in the center/most obvious. 
• He encourages marketers to use this tool, and view it from the eyes of a customer. 
• Mobile reality can't be ignored or fixed -- you can only do so much on a mobile screen. 

In The News (28:13): 

Google just lifted its 2019 ban on fingerprinting for advertisers

• Google now allows advertisers to track users across devices and websites, collecting data points like IP addresses, operating system details, and screen resolution.
• Kevin's hunch is we only see this live for a short time before it's taken away again, but they'll collect a significant amount of data in the meantime.

The Cost of Incentives: Have Buyers Come to Expect Perks?

• Are consumers addicted, are builders addicted, or both?
• Kevin recaps the importance of the messaging of "new," and how you don't have to offer the biggest new incentive, you need to lean into how consumers want to stay informed. 
• One nuance discussed is how some customers don't qualify without them.

The Seven Stages of AI Readiness In Homebuilding 

• From hype to impacti, AI is more than a buzzword. 
• Julie loves the advice to evaluate AI vendors with a critical eye, and reminds you that if you're headed to IBS, there will be a lot of buzzwords, but you need to ask great questions and "pull back the onion."
• You need to have a clear process on how your business operates before you can layer in AI -- rethink workflows not just technology. 
• Avoid AI for AI's sake -- start with clear business goals. 

Which Task Manager Tool is Best for Your Team?

• The best project management tool is the best one everyone in your organization will use! 
• If you're looking into using a task manager to help your team (Monday, Asana, Trello, etc.) she outlines the pros and cons to help you make an informed decision.
• Beth remembers wanting to implement something for her team, and asking Kevin how to get started, and thinks the ease-of-use summary was so helpful in the blog. 
• Come for the writing, stay for the summary chart! 

Things We Love - Things We Hate (53:38):

• Beth has entered "Masters season" in the Augusta area, and is fascinated by how intertwined it is into the culture. She is equally obsessed and perplexed. 
• Julie is in the midst of Mardi Gras, in full king cake and parade season. But her favorite thing is going to thrift stores, and loves the hunt. 
• Kevin's favorite is the Hollyland Lark M2S Microphone, which is extremely small, and is a great price for 2 mics. 

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Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell are here for a special Valentine's Day episode! They kick things off looking forward to the 2025 International Builders' Show (IBS), and share tips that you may not have thought of, that will make your time in Vegas more enjoyable and impactful if you're attending! They also share some really exciting news out of DYC -- the release of our brand-new SEM-PPC Quarterly Benchmarks! News topics include OpenAI's recent Super Bowl commercial, and an interesting YouTube fact that marketers need to consider. 

Story Time (02:42): 

• Julie is looking forward to IBS! 
• She shares tips that aren't-so-common, but super helpful: bring a microphone if you're shooting content! 
• Check out a variety of content and take the time to dig through some of the lesser known sessions. 
• Snacks! It can be hard to find time to wait in line or grab food, so Julie recommends bringing granola bars. 
• Beth is noticing a theme of builders taking a journey of discovering what makes them unique, and urges marketers to discover, "What problem are you trying to solve for your customers?" 
• If you solved a problem for a customer, no matter how small, it's such an important message to be sharing across your platforms. 

In The News (11:35): 

Q4 2024 SEM/PPC Benchmarks

• Sarah Simmerman released our first-ever Quarterly SEM/PPC Benchmarks to complement the popular Online Sales Benchmarks. 
• Helps you view trends across 90+ builder partners and compare how you are performing. 
• Provides a great example for storytelling, and how to provide data in an impactful way. 

2025: The Year Homebuilders Prove Who They Really Are And Can Be

• The quote that stood out to Beth: "The firms that thrive in 2025 and beyond won't just be those who build efficiently, it'll be the ones that build trust."
• People are struggling to identify how they can navigate this market against big builders, and building trust is at the essence of that. 
• How can you build trust from an organic point-of-view?
• The process of purchasing and marketing a home is very connected to human psychology.

OpenAI's ChatGPT Super Bowl commercial was created entirely by humans, and maybe we don't have to fear AI after all 

• The company opted not to use AI in the creation process to show that it's an extension of human creativity. 
• They're showcasing how the tool can be used to expand upon human creativity, vs. replacing it.

YouTube is now even bigger on TVs than phones

• While Beth finds this article interesting, she isn't surprised, as an early adopter of YouTube TV. 
• She shares how they adapted well to amass a great library and offerings. 
• As marketers, don't disregard YouTube! 
• Julie brings up the huge desire for longer form videos -- how can you take everyday interactions and purpose it for this?
• Consistency is key, and don't be afraid to explore video editing AI tools. 

Things We Love - Things We Hate (30:43):

• Julie has a bit of a sweet tooth, and has been loving and hating all of the Valentine's Day candies. Did you know that Nerd clusters have similar macros to the gels people use for long distance running?
• Beth has been prioritizing closet organization, and is using clear bins to make it even more functional. 

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Jen Barkan joins the podcast this week for a very special episode with Julie Jarnagin and Kevin Oakley. In Story Time, Julie highlights the importance of detailed messaging, referencing a builder survey on buyer preferences, while Kevin stresses having strong systems first, and Jen shares insights from National OSC Day and a creative prospecting strategy. In The News covers Q4 Benchmarks, a Homes By Dickerson award-winning case study, shifts in commission post-NAR settlement, and debates over Super Bowl ad spending. And finally, in Things We Love - Things We Hate, Julie shares her journey in making King cake, Kevin shares exciting news about an upcoming trip to Guatemala, and Jen finds both value and stress in her new Oura smart ring. 

Story Time (00:37): 

• Julie has been deep-diving into messaging with builders, and emphasizes that in today's market, we need to be really paying attention to those small details. 
• They discussed a builder who surveyed a VIP list, and saw that 70% of those surveyed wanted a house that was 3,000 sq. ft. or lower, and didn't care about pendant lights. They detail the importance of sharing that messaging, and how profound that process was for their company.
• Kevin "double clicks" on making sure your systems and processes are down first, which allows you to then focus on your messaging. 
• Jen shares our recent celebrations surrounding National OSC Day that took place on February 9th, and a recent prospecting strategy she utilized with an OSC, and how they worked around a tricky on-site scheduling barrier.
• Did you know there are over seven events listed currently on DYC's website? Kevin shares details about an upcoming speaking appearance, and a special breakfast event happening at the 2025 International Builders' Show. 

In The News (21:02): 

Q4 Benchmarks and 2024 Wrap-Up 

• Online Sales remains a constant in a changing market. 
• From Q3 to Q4, appointments from aged leads increased from 19% to 24%.

Homes By Dickerson Case Study 

• Julie shares the builders' dedication to their local Parade of Homes, and how the challenge was creating visuals for homes that weren't built yet. 
• Inspired by boutique hotels, each home had a different curated theme. 
• The builder is up for a NAHB Silver Award. 

Here's what else a $7M, 30-second Super Bowl budget can purchase in 2025

• They discuss whether a Super Bowl commercial is a good use of spend, and how their perspective has changed after reading the article. 
• Do you remember the commercial that was just a QR code?
• Kevin is surprised by companies who produce amazing commercials, but never air them again.

 Commissions Have Risen Slightly For Affordable Homes, Fallen Slightly For Expensive Homes, Since NAR Settlement Took Effect

• Jen shares a peek into the conversations happening on the online sales side, and what they are hearing from agents during calls, as well as buyers asking how having a realtor affects their spending power.

Things We Love - Things We Hate (44:10):

• It's King cake season in Louisiana, and Julie decided to make her own! It took 24 hours, and although it tasted good, she said it wasn't worth all the trouble. 
• Kevin finally got new glasses, and really enjoys being able to see well. But what he hates, is that he got two different kinds of glasses and they didn't pass the kid test. He and his wife are also helping to take 25 high school students to Guatemala, and an app he heard about this weekend called How We Feel, a journal for your wellbeing. 
• Jen got the Oura Smart Ring and loves all of the stats it shows, but her "readiness score" is causing her some stress and to overthink. That said, Julie has been appreciating Jen's advice from the ring! 
 

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 Join us for episode 373 as Jackie Lipinski and Julie Jarnagin cover exciting news from DYC's online sales team and upcoming events. A big topic this week is the almost out-of-nowhere emergence of DeepSeek, a new AI app that has the world talking. They also cover Threads -- which now offers ads -- and the importance of authenticity when selling a product, and not just focusing on overloading information. 

Story Time (01:14): 

• Jackie brought up the quotes she received for redoing her deck, and reminds you that while it's great to be prepared, authenticity and supporting your customer is more important than checking off boxes and overloading information
• Julie shares the DYC University we're holding for new hires, and the benefit of taking the time to learn what other individuals in your company do on a day-to-day. She also reminds marketers to be cognizant of making sure to share what you do with your team, and ensure your marketing department doesn't have a PR problem. 

In The News (15:40): 

• Q4 Benchmarks and 2024 Wrap-Up (https://www.doyouconvert.com)
• 2025 Online Sales Academy: Leadership Edition (https://onlinesales.doyouconvert.com)
• U.S. stock markets tumble as investors worry about DeepSeek (https://www.npr.org)
• Meta Launches ads on Threads (https://searchengineland.com)
• ICON, a builder of 3-D printed homes last valued around $2 billion, cuts around 25% of staff (https://techcrunch.com)

Things We Love - Things We Hate (33:12):

• Jackie was part of a Toastmasters competition, and although she's a co-host on a podcast and talks for a living, she was a little nervous! But she ended up winning, and gets to go to the next level of the competition! So a friendly reminder: even though you do something often, it's ok to be afraid or nervous. 
• After all of the snow in Louisiana, and the return back to warmer temps, things in Julie's house are now snapping and breaking, which has been less-than-fun. 
 

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 Join Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell for an exciting new episode! They kick things off by applying recent experiences to insightful marketing opportunities, and sharing the importance of speaking your customers' language. Julie talks about the team's upcoming trip to Las Vegas for the 2025 International Builders' Show, and the team gives practical advice for those looking into some influencer marketing this year. 

Story Time (03:08): 

• Beth brings up an example surrounding the times we nearly trip on uneven pavement, and how it relates to our marketing strategies. 
• Julie brings a prop -- her Native body wash -- which has two columns next to the ingredients, one showing the name, and the other explaining what it actually is. Things brings up a good lesson for builders in the importance of speaking our customers' language. 
• Jackie is getting a new deck put in, and shares the different approaches she experienced when getting quotes, and how it shaped her expectations. 

In The News (17:00): 

Join Do You Convert at the 2025 International Builders' Show 

• Julie shares the dates and locations that she, Kevin Oakley and Karla Tuten will be speaking 
• Kevin will be talking about leveraging technology for incredible customer experience
• Karla will be talking about the importance of brand consistency 
• Julie shares a story about her "what not to do" style presentation
• The trio reminds you -- wear comfortable shoes at IBS! 

How to Win With Influencer Marketing In a Year of Big Change and Endless Options

• Authenticity is such an important element, and the way you can merge someone's content into your storytelling is where a story comes to life 
• An "influencer" you work with doesn't always need to be someone with the largest page, it can be those who work at and are passionate about your company 

Has spring housing demand already started?

• For new homes -- it's our season! Now is the time to put your foot on the gas. 
• They discuss trends in the appointment-to-sale ratio and the 2024 Wrapped and Q4 Online Sales Benchmarks that just dropped and will be discussed in more detail in a future episode! 

Google Ads Search Max - new match type spotted

• A new match type -- smart matching -- has been spotted by some users 
• Google hasn't announced yet what the new match type spotted is exactly 
• It appears to be more A.I. based 

Things We Love - Things We Hate (34:55):

• Julie's favorite right now is that we are hiring for a Marketing and Events Manager at Do You Convert! She also loves the app Hollarhype, that gives friends and family opportunity to share voice memos with you while you're running, which was so beneficial during she and Jessie Suggs' marathon! 
• Beth's favorite is kicking off the Marketing Leadership Collective for 2025! 
• Jackie is starting a book club with friends and would love your favorite recommendations: jackielipinski@doyouconvert.com.
 

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Kevin Oakley is joined this episode by Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell, and they cover a lot! Kevin announces the VIP List is now open for the 2025 Online Sales and Marketing Summit, which will take place October 2-3 in Chicago at the Blu Aqua! They discuss the downfall of a rent-to-own startup, weigh in on TikTok's future in the U.S., and share their thoughts on a recent article from The Builder's Daily about household growth collapse signaling a future demand reset.

Story Time (01:50): 

• Julie loves her new Garmin watch -- though it's a little harsh on the data! 
• Beth is working on an article discussing the art of storytelling, and the team shares the importance of finding your "opposite"
• Kevin shares a story from a call this week surrounding accountability, and suggests approaching "dismissers' with anecdotal stories 

In The News (16:24): 

• Troubled Rent-To-Own Startup Divvy Homes 'Sold For Parts' (https://www.builderonline.com)
• Will Meta's Revised Approach to Business Moderation Impact Its Ad Business? (https://www.socialmediatoday.com)
• Google's search market share drops below 90% for the first time since 2015 (https://searchengineland.com)
• A Skeptical Supreme Court Weighs TikTok's Future in the U.S. (https://www.adweek.com)
• Household Growth Collapse Signals Future Demand Reset (https://www.thebuildersdaily.com)

Things We Love - Things We Hate (41:19): 

• Beth loves transparent leaders, who involve their team members in conversations 
• Julie read the book Hidden Valley Road, which was a fascinating read
• Kevin is planning a 20th anniversary trip, and found some really interesting information about dynamic pricing and how it feels like data is being used against us 
 

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Kevin Oakley is joined this episode by Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell for episode 369! They start by discussing the correlation between context and relationship when analyzing data, and Beth shares the inspiration behind her recent blog post about vanity metrics -- and how to avoid the venus metric trap. Additional topics discussed include a glimmer of hope from Realtor.com, and what you shouldn't count on happening in 2025. 

Story Time (03:57): 

• Jackie shares a great reminder surrounding cost-per-lead and how to approach it this year 
• Beth shares a recent conversation with her son, and how it has inspired her to help empower more data storytellers 
• Kevin has a busy year coming up! And asks, do we do another pancake breakfast at the builder show?

In The News (15:28): 

• The Venus Fly Trap of Vanity Metrics (https://www.doyouconvert.com)
• Will Homeowners Finally Sell in 2025? Here's What the Experts Say, Amid a Glimmer of Hope (https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/housing-market-2025/)
• What won't happen in 2025 (https://digiday.com/marketing/what-wont-happen-in-2025/) 

Things We Love - Things We Hate (39:10): 

• Jackie has been getting her groceries delivered, and the team jokes that it's a slippery slope 
• Beth was influenced and was gifted a pair of the Ozlo sleepbuds. She may or may not also be an influencer now! 
• Kevin has a predictive hate -- anything we're buying now that has an AI or software feature will need to be purchased again -- his remote start on his car being the first example 

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A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

Like and subscribe on your favorite platform!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!

A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!